JoeC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 13 hours ago, poppysox said: You do realize I supported raising the wage of the player you describe. I do not / did not. Still doesn't change my response to your characterization of no player being underpaid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Bunch of jagoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, JoeC said: I do not / did not. Still doesn't change my response to your characterization of no player being underpaid. There will always be played overpaid and underpaid. Players accept ten year contracts. Some will have better than expected years and be underpaid at any price. Eliminate gauranteed contracts and pay players weekly by performance to eliminate under or over paid situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 cancelled my MLBtv renewal. My small symbolic act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, BamaDoc said: cancelled my MLBtv renewal. My small symbolic act. I plan on the same symbolic act on Monday evening. Until then...I refuse to believe both sides are stupid enough to kill their golden goose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said: cancelled my MLBtv renewal. My small symbolic act. Ha I switched to T-Mobile last summer so I’m definitely going to take advantage of a year free whatever day it is they offer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 11 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: It’s not going to work this time. This isn’t Tony Clark’s dumbass running the show anymore. And the real losers are the fans. My dad has friends that haven’t been back to a baseball game since 1994. It’ll happen again. They and many others definitely miscalculated the players resolve. When all is said and done I think the CBT will look very similar to what is was and the players will get moderate gains in min salary and arb pool. The draft lottery bullshit is insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I don't agree with @poppysox often, but I do agree that this was always going to be a last minute thing. No side is going to give more than they have to until....well....they have to. Things don't look great, but at least they're meeting daily. Both sides obviously know where the other side wants to be at this point. There is no real benefit to either side cratering or agreeing to meet in the middle until they have to. If we don't have an agreement a week from today, well....the season isn't looking too good. But until then, I remain hopeful. we see April baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Even if they settled on the last proposal it would be a "win" for the players just not nearly as much as they are asking for and less than what many believe is fair. Some people believe that the opening position by the players was the most fair and that any retreat from that is a loss for the players. I don't believe the union expected to get everything but made an offer that put all the points on the table. I'm on the fence between wanting a shorter term CBA and do this more often with smaller movements each time that would presumably be easier to negotiate and implement and not wanting to be debating the business side of the game every couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) I don’t think this will be a “last minute” agreement that gets completed before this soft deadline. I think it will be after and they lose regular season games. Would rather lose games in early April than to finish the season early though. Edited February 24, 2022 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I don’t think this will be a “last minute” agreement that gets completed before this soft deadline. I think it will be after and they lose regular season games. Would rather lose games in early April than to finish the season early though. I'm not sure I agree with the last statement, but I do share your opinion that we'll blow right past the deadline. The players will call the owners' bluff... only to realize that the owners aren't bluffing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JoeC said: I'm not sure I agree with the last statement, but I do share your opinion that we'll blow right past the deadline. The players will call the owners' bluff... only to realize that the owners aren't bluffing. You would rather lose games at the end of the season and post season than games early in season? With the last statement I was just saying if they are going to miss games, better to miss at the beginning. Edited February 24, 2022 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 18 minutes ago, JoeC said: I'm not sure I agree with the last statement, but I do share your opinion that we'll blow right past the deadline. The players will call the owners' bluff... only to realize that the owners aren't bluffing. I don't think either side is bluffing at this juncture. The players aren't going to cave, but the owners aren't exactly unified on what they want, so them agreeing to anything seems far way right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: The players aren't going to cave, I'm not certain at what point caving would look like. Is getting half of what they are asking for caving? 25%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Texsox said: I'm not certain at what point caving would look like. Is getting half of what they are asking for caving? 25%? I think right now the players caving is then accepting the owners’ current offer. So, getting like 2%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 27 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: You would rather lose games at the end of the season and post season than games early in season? With the last statement I was just saying if they are going to miss games, better to miss at the beginning. I'm not saying I want to see them miss games at all. I'm just saying that with the way that things are going, and the level of mistrust (and apparent preparation by the union to hunker down in the long run while providing some form of payment to the players from the Rainy Day fund) is at a point where the players' association isn't afraid to keep going past a deadline that they think isn't real. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: I don't think either side is bluffing at this juncture. The players aren't going to cave, but the owners aren't exactly unified on what they want, so them agreeing to anything seems far way right now. Basically this is my exact sentiment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 19 minutes ago, JoeC said: I'm not saying I want to see them miss games at all. I'm just saying that with the way that things are going, and the level of mistrust (and apparent preparation by the union to hunker down in the long run while providing some form of payment to the players from the Rainy Day fund) is at a point where the players' association isn't afraid to keep going past a deadline that they think isn't real. Obviously we would all prefer them to not miss games but that doesn't seem realistic at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: They and many others definitely miscalculated the players resolve. When all is said and done I think the CBT will look very similar to what is was and the players will get moderate gains in min salary and arb pool. The draft lottery bullshit is insignificant. Yeah the draft lottery is pointless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 A question that seems likely to be relevant but hopefully won't be: Let's say they blow past the "deadline" next Monday, another week or so goes by, and it's clear Opening Day won't be happening on time. If the 2 sides are still very far apart at that deadline, what is there to get them talking again any time soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: A question that seems likely to be relevant but hopefully won't be: Let's say they blow past the "deadline" next Monday, another week or so goes by, and it's clear Opening Day won't be happening on time. If the 2 sides are still very far apart at that deadline, what is there to get them talking again any time soon? Yeah it seems to me like this is going to get hammered out in the next week or two, or we're looking at a coinflip of whether this season happens at all. If a shortened season with no pay for the players and no game revenue for the owners isn't enough to get them to meet in the middle when rubber meets the road next week, what is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yeah it seems to me like this is going to get hammered out in the next week or two, or we're looking at a coinflip of whether this season happens at all. If a shortened season with no pay for the players and no game revenue for the owners isn't enough to get them to meet in the middle when rubber meets the road next week, what is? I could see outside forces intervening (courts a-la 1994 or politicians since it is an election year), but otherwise, the next deadline I see has to be what, late June, as happened in 2020 - Spring training in July and then a 60 game season that salvages the playoffs? The owners made no proposals at all for a month and a half, and then both sides took their time in responding for the next several weeks, up until this week where everyone can see a legit deadline looming. I don't know what would get them talking again until June. Any of the people who have said that a deal is struck in April or May want to detail that to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I could see outside forces intervening (courts a-la 1994 or politicians since it is an election year), but otherwise, the next deadline I see has to be what, late June, as happened in 2020 - Spring training in July and then a 60 game season that salvages the playoffs? Let's be optimists here: The SOX have done, like NOTHING to stretch out Kopech and Crochet; by my recollection, one or the other will have to be in the rotation. Also, Lynn and Keuchel are old, and any shortening of the season saves them wear and tear on their bodies. Assuming health, a shorter season could make it easier for this roster to go further in the playoffs, while lessening the acute need to manage IP on these four. So, a delayed start to the season, while painful and inconvenient, could pay dividends in November. Possibly? Edited February 24, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Let's be optimists here: The SOX have done, like NOTHING to stretch out Kopech and Crochet; by my recollection, one or the other will have to be in the rotation. Also, Lynn and Keuchel are old, and any shortening of the season saves them wear and tear on their bodies. Assuming health, a shorter season could make it easier for this roster to go further in the playoffs, while lessening the acute need to manage IP on these four. So, a delayed start to the season, while painful and inconvenient, could pay dividends in November. Possibly? I also think a shortened season would ruin Kopech and Crochets chances of ever becoming a starting pitcher (in our uniform). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I also think a shortened season would ruin Kopech and Crochets chances of ever becoming a starting pitcher (in our uniform). I think this ship has already started to sail. They had every opportunity to allow these two to get stretched out last year, but alas, this organization seems hooked on the sugar high of "NOW," rather than maximizing these two. That said, I'm curious as to why you believe that a shortened season would complete the RP'ing of Kopech and Crochet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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