December 6, 20223 yr To me, Sale had anger management problems that he sometimes brought to the mound with him. This trade was, and is, still fine with me. As with White Flag Trade, the tank showed again that the Sox failed to develop young players, and that is one reason they had to trade for young players on other teams. If the team doesn't want to spend mega bucks on free agents, they have to spend it on developing a farm system and building from within. Are they doing that?
December 6, 20223 yr 17 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: No. Like you said they could have signed Charlie Morton and found a way to get a guy like Ervin Santana a couple years earlier and while he was still good. So your payroll is $50 million higher, so a $160-$170 million payroll? $12 million for Turner, $14 million for Cruz, $13.5 million for Santana, and $8 million for Morton, and that's probably a wild card team and Cleveland still outguns them? Yup.
December 6, 20223 yr Author 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: And that was going to be more productive than 2 playoff appearances? Um, ok. Maybe? You asked for some ideas and I gave provided some.
December 6, 20223 yr Author 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: So your payroll is $50 million higher, so a $160-$170 million payroll? $12 million for Turner, $14 million for Cruz, $13.5 million for Santana, and $8 million for Morton, and that's probably a wild card team and Cleveland still outguns them? Yup. Cleveland likely outguns them in 2017 for sure. 2018 is another story as the division was wide open. Sox get in and anything can happen as Boston doesn't have Sale.
December 6, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: Maybe? You asked for some ideas and I gave provided some. I asked for something that would be better than what we got. I haven't seen it yet, even with hindsight.
December 6, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: Cleveland likely outguns them in 2017 for sure. 2018 is another story as the division was wide open. Sox get in and anything can happen as Boston doesn't have Sale. Ervin Santana had an ERA of 8 in 2018. You are paying him $13.5 million.
December 6, 20223 yr I'm fine with re-tooling as well. Even a soft rebuild where they're getting MLB ready young talent is fine. If they wanted to blow the whole thing up, I wouldn't care. Edited December 6, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman
December 6, 20223 yr Author 28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I asked for something that would be better than what we got. I haven't seen it yet, even with hindsight. Well you might not be able to see it, but I certainly can. I haven't see any AL Pennants or World Series banners yet with the rebuild either.
December 6, 20223 yr Author 28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Ervin Santana had an ERA of 8 in 2018. You are paying him $13.5 million. Flip Santana in the offseason after his strong 2017 to a team in go for it mode. Get a guy like walker Buehler or Jack Flaherty
December 6, 20223 yr Author 16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm fine with re-tooling as well. Even a soft rebuild where they're getting MLB ready young talent is fine. If they wanted to blow the whole thing up, I wouldn't care. No more tanking. It is not the way. Losing 95 plus games only to draft guys like Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn doesn't work.
December 6, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: No more tanking. It is not the way. Losing 95 plus games only to draft guys like Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn doesn't work. No, tanking is the way. It is the best way. Tanking>>>>>>>Mediocrity. Tanking gives the fanbase hope, even if misguided. Mediocrity crushes all hope. You are arguing for more mediocrity and I can't agree with that ever. Things have to get worse before they get better. If at first you don't succeed, tear it down and try again. Edited December 6, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman
December 6, 20223 yr They couldn't put a winner on the field with Sale, and haven't been able to since trading him and others for massive hauls. Its almost as if they are just really bad at this all around.
December 6, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Tnetennba said: They couldn't put a winner on the field with Sale, and haven't been able to since trading him and others for massive hauls. Its almost as if they are just really bad at this all around. This, they really need to Fire Hahn and have KW resign. Also if Jerry is going to have such a budget operate like the Rays or A's goddammit. Pick a lane.
December 6, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: This, they really need to Fire Hahn and have KW resign. Also if Jerry is going to have such a budget operate like the Rays or A's goddammit. Pick a lane. I agree Hahn and Co needs fired... But nothing will change until Jerry is dead. I mean the team is sold.
December 6, 20223 yr Author 22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No, tanking is the way. It is the best way. Tanking>>>>>>>Mediocrity. Tanking gives the fanbase hope, even if misguided. Mediocrity crushes all hope. You are arguing for more mediocrity and I can't agree with that ever. Things have to get worse before they get better. If at first you don't succeed, tear it down and try again. Tanking is a legit option if you know how to draft, scout the international market, and develop players. The Sox cannot do any of that well therefore tanking is not an option for them. Another tank job by the Sox will only give the gullible fanbase hope.
December 6, 20223 yr Author 1 hour ago, Highland said: To me, Sale had anger management problems that he sometimes brought to the mound with him. This trade was, and is, still fine with me. As with White Flag Trade, the tank showed again that the Sox failed to develop young players, and that is one reason they had to trade for young players on other teams. If the team doesn't want to spend mega bucks on free agents, they have to spend it on developing a farm system and building from within. Are they doing that? Chris Sale was an absolute stud. Miss watching that guy pitch every day on the South Side. Best Sox pitcher I've ever watched in person.
December 6, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said: Tanking is a legit option if you know how to draft, scout the international market, and develop players. The Sox cannot do any of that well therefore tanking is not an option for them. Another tank job by the Sox will only give the gullible fanbase hope. And yet you expect the White Sox to perfectly scout veterans to the point that they know exactly when Ervin Santana will turn to dust.
December 6, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, black jack said: Moncada is going to bounce back this year. 8 war. Dude always has the talent. But boy what a commentary on an unnamed manager that would be.
December 6, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said: No more tanking. It is not the way. Losing 95 plus games only to draft guys like Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn doesn't work. The tank also got them half of this team which wouldn't be here, and they would have still sucked.
December 6, 20223 yr 34 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: Chris Sale was an absolute stud. Miss watching that guy pitch every day on the South Side. Best Sox pitcher I've ever watched in person. And in your world, he gets TJS, we get nothing for him, and lose him as a free agent. Seems way better.
December 6, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Highland said: To me, Sale had anger management problems that he sometimes brought to the mound with him. This trade was, and is, still fine with me. As with White Flag Trade, the tank showed again that the Sox failed to develop young players, and that is one reason they had to trade for young players on other teams. If the team doesn't want to spend mega bucks on free agents, they have to spend it on developing a farm system and building from within. Are they doing that? 100% Sox cannot develop younger guys. Their success stories are almost always top tier prospects unless it's a pitcher, I give them credit there I guess
December 6, 20223 yr Author 25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The tank also got them half of this team which wouldn't be here, and they would have still sucked. You have no idea on whether or not they would have sucked if they never tanked. Things could have been much different if a new front office and scouting team was brought in. Again, they tanked a whole freaking season only to draft Nick freaking Madrigal. Lmao.
December 6, 20223 yr Author 26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: And in your world, he gets TJS, we get nothing for him, and lose him as a free agent. Seems way better. Sorry you can't see any alternatives. That seems to be the problem with many of the hardcore tankies. They don't seem to understand that baseball isn't yet played on spreadsheets and prospect ranking aren't gospel.
December 6, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: You have no idea on whether or not they would have sucked if they never tanked. Things could have been much different if a new front office and scouting team was brought in. Again, they tanked a whole freaking season only to draft Nick freaking Madrigal. Lmao. You're pretending like a new front office wouldn't have improved the rebuilds too. Unfortunately that's not a valid path. The two paths are: Continue to do what they are doing and trust that Rick Hahn can turn a 75 win team with a barren minor league system and a high (for them) payroll into a winner through his skill at acquiring veterans. Trust that Rick Hahn can complete a rebuild. The second option actually got them into the playoffs 1 and a half times! The former led to such wonderful moves as trading away Semien, Bassitt, and some other SS while having James Shields's contract become the worst contract on two different teams.
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