Are the Sox actually building a respectable Latin American operation?

[southsider2k5]

So even discarding the Cuban signings such as Chapelli, Mena, Vera and company, seeing these lists, it seems the Sox are actually building a Latin American operation which might be finally starting to pay off.

Bryan Ramos is a top 3 player on the top lists.

Lenyn Sosa got a call up, and is getting some hype as a potential starter, Carlos Perez also got a call up, and is currently sitting 3rd in the catcher depth chart with a potentially toasted Yas Grandal in front of him.

Jose Rodriguez is getting the same kind of level of thought as Sosa.

The hype train seems to be starting on Ryan Burrowes.

Erick Hernandez didn't have a great year at 16, but is thought of a potential breakout and high ceiling player.

Guys like Luis Meises, Darrio Barrero, and Wil Veras and getting talk as players with a loud tool who could break out with some other advancements.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just an FYI, but Ramos is Cuban and Mena is not.

Regardless, Paddy has done a fantastic job operating within the confines he’s been dealt with (Yogurt being the one obvious exception).

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Just an FYI, but Ramos is Cuban and Mena is not.

Regardless, Paddy has done a fantastic job operating within the confines he’s been dealt with (Yogurt being the one obvious exception).

How’s Yolbert’s glove? Maybe they can find value in him as a backup.

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

How’s Yolbert’s glove? Maybe they can find value in him as a backup.

That has always been his calling card. The bat was the thing that was doubted.

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Just an FYI, but Ramos is Cuban and Mena is not.

Regardless, Paddy has done a fantastic job operating within the confines he’s been dealt with (Yogurt being the one obvious exception).

Good call, thanks for the update.

[Chicago White Sox]

24 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

How’s Yolbert’s glove? Maybe they can find value in him as a backup.

He’s supposed to be a quality defender, but moreso to good hands, footwork, etc. vs. pure range.  As such, he’s better suited for 2B vs. SS.

My beef with Yolbert is simply the amount of money they spent on a guy who more or less has a reserve infielder ceiling.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

He’s supposed to be a quality defender, but moreso to good hands, footwork, etc. vs. pure range.  As such, he’s better suited for 2B vs. SS.

My beef with Yolbert is simply the amount of money they spent on a guy who more or less has a reserve infielder ceiling.

Agreed.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'll believe it when I actually see a few Dominican's playing for the Sox . MLB has been mining the DR for years. Have the Sox ever had one play for them who did anything ? Until that happens any hype is blowing smoke up our...

Edited December 28, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

I feel like we've been reading this same thing for years. 

"Look, we brought in Abreu and he was a huge success. We signed Tatis, Yolmer Sanchez looks like he could be a starting 2b, and we have Adolfo who looks like a future stud, and other guys like Johan Cruz are now in our system. Plus we had a big signing with Franklin Reyes, that's sure to strengthen the system."

[GreenSox]

Development and ultimate success of Mena and Vera (or perhaps some other pitchers) will go a long way to firming this up.  

[Y2Jimmy0]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I feel like we've been reading this same thing for years. 

"Look, we brought in Abreu and he was a huge success. We signed Tatis, Yolmer Sanchez looks like he could be a starting 2b, and we have Adolfo who looks like a future stud, and other guys like Johan Cruz are now in our system. Plus we had a big signing with Franklin Reyes, that's sure to strengthen the system."

I understand what you're saying but this is much different. Ramos will be in AA. Sosa already destroyed AA. Rodriguez will likely be in Charlotte. Many have been successful and have been matriculating to the high minors. This is much different than it's been in quite some time 

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I feel like we've been reading this same thing for years. 

"Look, we brought in Abreu and he was a huge success. We signed Tatis, Yolmer Sanchez looks like he could be a starting 2b, and we have Adolfo who looks like a future stud, and other guys like Johan Cruz are now in our system. Plus we had a big signing with Franklin Reyes, that's sure to strengthen the system."

So Tatis being a $300 million player and Yolmer being a gold glove second basemen are bad things and not signs of progress internationally?

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So Tatis being a $300 million player and Yolmer being a gold glove second basemen are bad things and not signs of progress internationally?

And Abreu being an all-time franchise player.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

And Abreu being an all-time franchise player.

Like I said in the initial post, I was even trying to get past the older international signings to focus in on just the 16 year old crowd.

[Springfield Soxfan]

What has happened to Cesoedes? Wasn’t he supposed to be #1 International Signing at the time?

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So Tatis being a $300 million player and Yolmer being a gold glove second basemen are bad things and not signs of progress internationally?

You've set yourself up.

Were the White Sox doing a good job in the international market in 2016?

Your own post title "actually building a respectable latin american operation" tells me that you don't believe they did because otherwise it would be "White Sox continue building their successful international operation"

Saying a couple of names who have positive trajectories doesn't make a strong case on its own that a team is doing a good job there. A consistent set of talent coming from there is a very different story.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

You've set yourself up.

Were the White Sox doing a good job in the international market in 2016?

Your own post title "actually building a respectable latin american operation" tells me that you don't believe they did because otherwise it would be "White Sox continue building their successful international operation"

Saying a couple of names who have positive trajectories doesn't make a strong case on its own that a team is doing a good job there. A consistent set of talent coming from there is a very different story.

No, I am failing to see how sighting one of the best players in the world and a glove glover as a failure makes any sense for the point you are trying to make.

[Balta1701]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

No, I am failing to see how sighting one of the best players in the world and a glove glover as a failure makes any sense for the point you are trying to make.

Was the White Sox's latin american operation respectable in 2016?

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Was the White Sox's latin american operation respectable in 2016?

Let's fail more often!

[Timmy U]

From 1990 to 2020, Sox are 10th, about average in international signings WAR.  https://www.thegoodphight.com/2020/3/12/21175355/thirty-years-war-each-teams-international-signings
 

That includes the period of all their troubles. I think their Latin operation is on the upswing.  The real problem is poor drafting during the rebuild.

[Balta1701]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Let's fail more often!

You mean like the White Sox's international operation over the last half decade?

A successful international operation can regularly produce talent. The Astros, for example, have Urquidy, Valdez, Luis Garcia, Christian Javier, and Bryan Abreu just in their pitching staff - and all of those were international signings. A couple names coming through every now and then is a big difference from "an entire starting rotation". A complete failure of an international operation, like the White Sox have been, will still produce some names by a roll of the dice, so quoting those names before we see a line of repeated big league success stories, giving them credit for success right now is the same as praising RH for his international operation in 2016, which in reality I think we all agree was pretty bad.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

From 1990 to 2020, Sox are 10th, about average in international signings WAR.  https://www.thegoodphight.com/2020/3/12/21175355/thirty-years-war-each-teams-international-signings
 

That includes the period of all their troubles. I think their Latin operation is on the upswing.  The real problem is poor drafting during the rebuild.

 

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You mean like the White Sox's international operation over the last half decade?

A successful international operation can regularly produce talent. The Astros, for example, have Urquidy, Valdez, Luis Garcia, Christian Javier, and Bryan Abreu just in their pitching staff - and all of those were international signings. A couple names coming through every now and then is a big difference from "an entire starting rotation". A complete failure of an international operation, like the White Sox have been, will still produce some names by a roll of the dice, so quoting those names before we see a line of repeated big league success stories, giving them credit for success right now is the same as praising RH for his international operation in 2016, which in reality I think we all agree was pretty bad.

Top 10 and essentially average is a complete failure?  Interesting.

[Chicago White Sox]

If you can’t acknowledge the Sox have made major strides in LatAm, then you’re not paying attention.  Ignoring the older Cuban signees (Colas, Cespedes, Yogurt), the Sox have seven prospects of note who should be in High A or higher next year:

• Bryan Ramos: 20 year old 3B signed out of Cuba who put up a 122 wRC+ as one of the younger players in High A
• Jose Rodriguez: 21 year old IF signed out of DR who posted a 148 wRC+ with 10 HRs and 28 SBs over his last ~250 PA’s in AA
• Lenyn Sosa: 22 year old IF signed out of Venezuela who put up a 141 wRC+ in AA and then a 149 wRC+ over his last 160 PA’s in AAA
• Luis Mieses: 22 year old OF signed out of DR who had a league leading 34 doubles in the South Atlantic League and a .824 OPS against RHP
• Wilfred Veras: 20 year old LF/1B signed out of DR who hit 17 HRs in the Carolina League (4th overall) and then three more for Project Birmingham
• Norge Vera: 22 year old RHP signed out of Cuba with plus plus fastball who posted a +13 K/9 rate and finished season with Project Birmingham
• Christian Mena: 20 year old RHP signed out of DR who was one of only five teenagers to throw 100 innings and had the 2nd highest K rate at 29%

I can’t recall a single time in my 39 years on this planet that the Sox had this many interesting young LatAm prospects who made it above Kannapolis.  And this doesn’t account for the next wave of talent that should be in Low A or Complex ball next year or a guy like Chapelli who could theoretically go straight to Winston-Salem next year.

[Balta1701]

56 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

From 1990 to 2020, Sox are 10th, about average in international signings WAR.  https://www.thegoodphight.com/2020/3/12/21175355/thirty-years-war-each-teams-international-signings
 

That includes the period of all their troubles. I think their Latin operation is on the upswing.  The real problem is poor drafting during the rebuild.

Presumably though that includes Abreu?

[Timmy U]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Presumably though that includes Abreu?

for sure.