A-Train to 35th Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Sox instructed Diekman to use all 4 of his pitches which resulted in a 6.52 era in 26 games for the Sox. Tampa gets him and tells him to only throw his 4-seamer and breaker and that resulted in a 2.21 ERA in 25 games, and he hasn't allowed a run in 19 of his last 20 appearances. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) For some odd reason the White Sox like their relievers to use all their pitches. This has killed Joe Kelly and probably Bummer. Relievers are mostly not starters because they have 1 great pitch and a decent show me pitch. They are inept. Edited July 21, 2023 by Harry Chappas 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: For some odd reason the White Sox like their relievers to use all their pitches. This has killed Joe Kelly and probably Bummer. Relievers are mostly not starters because they have 1 great pitch and a decent show me pitch. They are inept. Joe Kelly came to the Sox injured and has remained injured. That is the problem. Not his pitches used 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 After reading that post, my first thought was what would Sox have done to Mariano Rivera? He threw the one pitch, the Cutter, almost exclusively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) I think this speaks volumes about the Sox player development. While Diekman at this point in his career shouldn't need development sometimes wise advise is all it takes. Obviously Tampa knows how to teach new players and simplify things for struggling players they acquire. The sox did Andrew Vaughn no favors by bringing him up to learn a new position in the outfield. He has not taken the next step mainly IMO because the Sox f***ed around with him so much he didn't have time to develop. Edited July 21, 2023 by A-Train to 35th n't 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/7/20/23801857/something-to-be-said-for-change-of-scenery-former-white-sox-jake-diekman-case-in-point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 Just now, Lip Man 1 said: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/7/20/23801857/something-to-be-said-for-change-of-scenery-former-white-sox-jake-diekman-case-in-point That's the article that gave me the idea to start the topic. It's been talked about here before, but it's nice to see reported. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 KATZ LAB / COOP WILL FIX EM/ etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I think this is dumb. There are too many examples of the Sox failing to use their resources than to spend time in Diekman. You know who was bad before he got to the Sox? Jake Diekman. On the Red Sox! welcome to middle relievers. They are great and horrible. Especially in their 30s. That’s why you don’t take on future salary for zero reason on one. Again - what is reason for success on Touki and Santos and Middleton? We must be geniuses. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, bmags said: I think this is dumb. There are too many examples of the Sox failing to use their resources than to spend time in Diekman. You know who was bad before he got to the Sox? Jake Diekman. On the Red Sox! welcome to middle relievers. They are great and horrible. Especially in their 30s. That’s why you don’t take on future salary for zero reason on one. Again - what is reason for success on Touki and Santos and Middleton? We must be geniuses. Also the Rays are a good organization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said: I think this speaks volumes about the Sox player development. While Diekman at this point in his career should need development sometimes wise advise is all it takes. Obviously Tampa knows how to teach new players and simplify things for struggling players they acquire. The sox did Andrew Vaughn no favors by bringing him up to learn a new position in the outfield. He has not taken the next step mainly IMO because the Sox f***ed around with him so much he didn't have time to develop. Oh god, why does this sound exactly like how we handled Gordon Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Remember as well according to Garfein he was told that Diekman said he's performing better because now "he has a catcher that he trusts." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said: Remember as well according to Garfein he was told that Diekman said he's performing better because now "he has a catcher that he trusts." 1) PitchComm 2) Who is rookie Gregory Santos trusting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Quin said: Also the Rays are a good organization That's really the point of the thread. The Ray's and most teams for that matter, are > the White Sox at player development and coaching. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 5 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said: Sox instructed Diekman to use all 4 of his pitches which resulted in a 6.52 era in 26 games for the Sox. Tampa gets him and tells him to only throw his 4-seamer and breaker and that resulted in a 2.21 ERA in 25 games, and he hasn't allowed a run in 19 of his last 20 appearances. I thought I read in addition to the Rays being stronger than the Sox in fixing players, Diekman also mentioned he attributed part of the success to having a better catcher, one that he could count on. If that is the case, which I would totally believe, so shocking to hear Grandal being part of the fault. LMAO! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said: I thought I read in addition to the Rays being stronger than the Sox in fixing players, Diekman also mentioned he attributed part of the success to having a better catcher, one that he could count on. If that is the case, which I would totally believe, so shocking to hear Grandal being part of the fault. LMAO! He reportedly said he "now has a catcher he can trust..." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 16 hours ago, Quin said: 1) PitchComm 2) Who is rookie Gregory Santos trusting? Giants suck lol. Except every other year when they work miracles with unknown rag tag groups of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, bmags said: I think this is dumb. There are too many examples of the Sox failing to use their resources than to spend time in Diekman. You know who was bad before he got to the Sox? Jake Diekman. On the Red Sox! welcome to middle relievers. They are great and horrible. Especially in their 30s. That’s why you don’t take on future salary for zero reason on one. Again - what is reason for success on Touki and Santos and Middleton? We must be geniuses. To be fair, most don't want Toussaint to be a starter in 2024 after his latest outing and Middleton and Kelly have lost significant (especially in Middleton's case) value compared to let's say 4-6 weeks ago. Reynaldo Lopez has actually been better than those two (whose value they also cratered compared to this past offseason)....seems they have also decided to make Bummer a 4-6 out guy with Banks struggling and Crochet possibly out the remainder of the season. (Who would take Bummer's contract besides the Sox if he was on the waiver wire? Also, pretty difficult to imagine any other organization getting this little out of Crochet and Kopech, for example.) Edited July 22, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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