July 21, 20232 yr Sox instructed Diekman to use all 4 of his pitches which resulted in a 6.52 era in 26 games for the Sox. Tampa gets him and tells him to only throw his 4-seamer and breaker and that resulted in a 2.21 ERA in 25 games, and he hasn't allowed a run in 19 of his last 20 appearances.
July 21, 20232 yr For some odd reason the White Sox like their relievers to use all their pitches. This has killed Joe Kelly and probably Bummer. Relievers are mostly not starters because they have 1 great pitch and a decent show me pitch. They are inept. Edited July 21, 20232 yr by Harry Chappas
July 21, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: For some odd reason the White Sox like their relievers to use all their pitches. This has killed Joe Kelly and probably Bummer. Relievers are mostly not starters because they have 1 great pitch and a decent show me pitch. They are inept. Joe Kelly came to the Sox injured and has remained injured. That is the problem. Not his pitches used
July 21, 20232 yr After reading that post, my first thought was what would Sox have done to Mariano Rivera? He threw the one pitch, the Cutter, almost exclusively.
July 21, 20232 yr Author I think this speaks volumes about the Sox player development. While Diekman at this point in his career shouldn't need development sometimes wise advise is all it takes. Obviously Tampa knows how to teach new players and simplify things for struggling players they acquire. The sox did Andrew Vaughn no favors by bringing him up to learn a new position in the outfield. He has not taken the next step mainly IMO because the Sox f***ed around with him so much he didn't have time to develop. Edited July 21, 20232 yr by A-Train to 35th n't
July 21, 20232 yr https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/7/20/23801857/something-to-be-said-for-change-of-scenery-former-white-sox-jake-diekman-case-in-point
July 21, 20232 yr Author Just now, Lip Man 1 said: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/7/20/23801857/something-to-be-said-for-change-of-scenery-former-white-sox-jake-diekman-case-in-point That's the article that gave me the idea to start the topic. It's been talked about here before, but it's nice to see reported.
July 21, 20232 yr I think this is dumb. There are too many examples of the Sox failing to use their resources than to spend time in Diekman. You know who was bad before he got to the Sox? Jake Diekman. On the Red Sox! welcome to middle relievers. They are great and horrible. Especially in their 30s. That’s why you don’t take on future salary for zero reason on one. Again - what is reason for success on Touki and Santos and Middleton? We must be geniuses.
July 21, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, bmags said: I think this is dumb. There are too many examples of the Sox failing to use their resources than to spend time in Diekman. You know who was bad before he got to the Sox? Jake Diekman. On the Red Sox! welcome to middle relievers. They are great and horrible. Especially in their 30s. That’s why you don’t take on future salary for zero reason on one. Again - what is reason for success on Touki and Santos and Middleton? We must be geniuses. Also the Rays are a good organization
July 21, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said: I think this speaks volumes about the Sox player development. While Diekman at this point in his career should need development sometimes wise advise is all it takes. Obviously Tampa knows how to teach new players and simplify things for struggling players they acquire. The sox did Andrew Vaughn no favors by bringing him up to learn a new position in the outfield. He has not taken the next step mainly IMO because the Sox f***ed around with him so much he didn't have time to develop. Oh god, why does this sound exactly like how we handled Gordon Beckham.
July 21, 20232 yr Remember as well according to Garfein he was told that Diekman said he's performing better because now "he has a catcher that he trusts."
July 21, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said: Remember as well according to Garfein he was told that Diekman said he's performing better because now "he has a catcher that he trusts." 1) PitchComm 2) Who is rookie Gregory Santos trusting?
July 21, 20232 yr Author 1 hour ago, Quin said: Also the Rays are a good organization That's really the point of the thread. The Ray's and most teams for that matter, are > the White Sox at player development and coaching.
July 21, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said: Sox instructed Diekman to use all 4 of his pitches which resulted in a 6.52 era in 26 games for the Sox. Tampa gets him and tells him to only throw his 4-seamer and breaker and that resulted in a 2.21 ERA in 25 games, and he hasn't allowed a run in 19 of his last 20 appearances. I thought I read in addition to the Rays being stronger than the Sox in fixing players, Diekman also mentioned he attributed part of the success to having a better catcher, one that he could count on. If that is the case, which I would totally believe, so shocking to hear Grandal being part of the fault. LMAO!
July 21, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said: I thought I read in addition to the Rays being stronger than the Sox in fixing players, Diekman also mentioned he attributed part of the success to having a better catcher, one that he could count on. If that is the case, which I would totally believe, so shocking to hear Grandal being part of the fault. LMAO! He reportedly said he "now has a catcher he can trust..."
July 22, 20232 yr 16 hours ago, Quin said: 1) PitchComm 2) Who is rookie Gregory Santos trusting? Giants suck lol. Except every other year when they work miracles with unknown rag tag groups of players.
July 22, 20232 yr 17 hours ago, bmags said: I think this is dumb. There are too many examples of the Sox failing to use their resources than to spend time in Diekman. You know who was bad before he got to the Sox? Jake Diekman. On the Red Sox! welcome to middle relievers. They are great and horrible. Especially in their 30s. That’s why you don’t take on future salary for zero reason on one. Again - what is reason for success on Touki and Santos and Middleton? We must be geniuses. To be fair, most don't want Toussaint to be a starter in 2024 after his latest outing and Middleton and Kelly have lost significant (especially in Middleton's case) value compared to let's say 4-6 weeks ago. Reynaldo Lopez has actually been better than those two (whose value they also cratered compared to this past offseason)....seems they have also decided to make Bummer a 4-6 out guy with Banks struggling and Crochet possibly out the remainder of the season. (Who would take Bummer's contract besides the Sox if he was on the waiver wire? Also, pretty difficult to imagine any other organization getting this little out of Crochet and Kopech, for example.) Edited July 22, 20232 yr by caulfield12
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