7 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

My argument was that for the majority of his career, Cease has underperformed his FIP consistently. 

I brought up Vazquez because he's another example of that, that Sox fans know well.

Cease, in reality is a mid rotation pitcher that stays healthy. I don't think it's too out of touch to say that. And the last 2 seasons he's been closer to a #4. 

Last year I could have bought the shitty D argument but now that he's on another team it's time to admit the dude just gives up too many runs to be a TOR starter. 

Getz did well in the trade. 

A starter averging 10% above league average in ERA plus 150 innings isn't "mid-rotation" unless you call the #2 slot mid rotation.  And that's not including the fielding considerations.

Thinking about when the Sox picked up Vazquez, I still get a boner. That rotation was absolutely disgusting on paper and all JV had to be was the fifth starter. Then the addition of Thome and that team should’ve been something else.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

A starter averging 10% above league average in ERA plus 150 innings isn't "mid-rotation" unless you call the #2 slot mid rotation.  And that's not including the fielding considerations.

It is for a playoff contender

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

A starter averging 10% above league average in ERA plus 150 innings isn't "mid-rotation" unless you call the #2 slot mid rotation.  And that's not including the fielding considerations.

By definition, mid-rotation would have to be either 2-4 or just 3.

Some semantics to go along with the grammar discussion.

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

It is for a playoff contender

Let's see that list of playoff contenders who have #3 starters with career ERA+ of 110 and pulling down 150 innings per year.

Wondering If you guys are happy with the return for Cease after the fact? Do you think you did better than Joey Ortiz and DL Hall? Ortiz is currently at 2.1 WAR.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Let's see that list of playoff contenders who have #3 starters with career ERA+ of 110 and pulling down 150 innings per year.

I mean we’re talking about right here right now. He’s a solid #3 on a playoff contender.

Anyways, Thorpe sure appears to be a guy that’s going to give 150+ innings a season with an ERA in the upper 3s. This win is a huge win for the Sox/Getz if he does that.

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I mean we’re talking about right here right now. He’s a solid #3 on a playoff contender.

Anyways, Thorpe sure appears to be a guy that’s going to give 150+ innings a season with an ERA in the upper 3s. This win is a huge win for the Sox/Getz if he does that.

Oh, so you moved the goal posts because I was right.

3 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

Wondering If you guys are happy with the return for Cease after the fact? Do you think you did better than Joey Ortiz and DL Hall? Ortiz is currently at 2.1 WAR.

I was wondering how the predictable demise of the Os rotation was going, and if they would actually show some stones this this around?

3 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

Wondering If you guys are happy with the return for Cease after the fact? Do you think you did better than Joey Ortiz and DL Hall? Ortiz is currently at 2.1 WAR.

Well, Drew Thorpe is on the verge of starting his career 3-1 with an ERA in the low 3s for a team that’s on pace to lose 115 games. If people aren’t happy with the trade, it’s because they irrationally dislike Getz…

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Oh, so you moved the goal posts because I was right.

Do you think Fedde or Cease is having a better 2024? Do you consider Fedde a strong #2 on a playoff contender? I don’t.

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Do you think Fedde or Cease is having a better 2024? Do you consider Fedde a strong #2 on a playoff contender? I don’t.

Flaherty was garbage last year and just now, one year later, the #3 starter on the market.

12 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

Wondering If you guys are happy with the return for Cease after the fact? Do you think you did better than Joey Ortiz and DL Hall? Ortiz is currently at 2.1 WAR.

Way too early too say at this point.  Ortiz looks great so far, but we got to see a larger sample.  He’s walking at an elite level and well above his career norms, so some regression is likely coming with the bat at least.  If he’s really a 4.5 win player, then we both whiffed badly on him.

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Flaherty was garbage last year and just now, one year later, the #3 starter on the market.

For all of our FIP fans out there. Flaherty’s is nearly identical to Cease’s for his career.

5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

For all of our FIP fans out there. Flaherty’s is nearly identical to Cease’s for his career.

He had the really early career reputation of a dominant TOR starter and then lost that mystique largely due to injuries and non performance.

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

For all of our FIP fans out there. Flaherty’s is nearly identical to Cease’s for his career.

He also hasn't been over 150 innings since 2019.  What has Cease done?  

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Way too early too say at this point.  Ortiz looks great so far, but we got to see a larger sample.  He’s walking at an elite level and well above his career norms, so some regression is likely coming with the bat at least.  If he’s really a 4.5 win player, then we both whiffed badly on him.

Ortiz looks better than expected but by the time the Sox are ever good again, he’ll be closer to 30.  Ortiz turns 26 in a week.

DL Hall and his 2+ WHIP is dog dookie.  No thanks.  He’s a bust.

Edited July 6, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He also hasn't been over 150 innings since 2019.  What has Cease done?  

I’m no fan of Flaherty personally. I don’t think Os fans are either but I’ll let them respond to that rather than speak on their behalf. @Rolle Tide?

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

Ortiz looks better than expected but by the time the Sox are ever good again, he’ll be closer to 30.  DL Hall and his 2+ WHIP is dog dookie.

Milwaukee was never going to sign Burnes.

And they still have a possibility Woodruff can make it back with that interesting contract structure.

27 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Well, Drew Thorpe is on the verge of starting his career 3-1 with an ERA in the low 3s for a team that’s on pace to lose 115 games. If people aren’t happy with the trade, it’s because they irrationally dislike Getz…

You are the master of only looking at the stats at a moment in time when they favor whatever your stupid argument is, which is basically bashing any team better than the Sox or a team that traded with the Sox.  You go silent when the stats don’t prove your point.

Aren’t you the same poster who said in the past that the James Shields trade wasn’t that bad because the Padres signed Tatis Jr. to a big extension and then he got injured and the Sox wouldn’t have been able to afford him anyways?  I remember it being the dumbest water carrying defense of one of the worst trades in Sox history.

Edited July 6, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You are the master of only looking at the stats at a moment in time when they favor whatever your stupid argument is, which is basically bashing any team better than the Sox or a team that traded with the Sox.  You go silent when the stats don’t prove your point.

Aren’t you the same poster who said in the past that the James Shields trade wasn’t that bad because the Padres signed Tatis Jr. to a big extension and then he got injured and the Sox wouldn’t have been able to afford him anyways?  I remember it being the dumbest water carrying defense of one of the worst trades in Sox history.

Yep, I said his contract will age terribly and I still firmly believe that. What have the Padres won with all their big trades and big free agent signings?

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yep, I said his contract will age terribly and I still firmly believe that. What have the Padres won with all their big trades and big free agent signings?

Yep, I thought so.  And it’s still as dumb as when you initially posted it.  And now you are doubling down on your stupid post.  That’s really not how to assess a trade.

Getz just wasted $24 million this past offseason on a bunch of dumpster diving veteran junk and you think that’s too much to pay for Tatis Jr.

Edited July 6, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yeah, it’s still as dumb as when you posted it.  That’s really not how to assess a trade.

It’s sad you’re spending time going thru all my old posts. That was posted well before you were a member on this site. That’s dumber (or more pathetic) than anything I’ve ever posted.

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

It’s sad you’re spending time going thru all my old posts. That was posted well before you were a member on this site. That’s dumber (or more pathetic) than anything I’ve ever posted.

I have browsed this site for awhile.

Saddest of all is that anyone would make such an embarrassing water carrying post for the Sox front office, as if they have ever been a group that you give the benefit of the doubt to.

You also ignored the fact that had the Sox kept Tatis Jr., they didn’t have to offer him the very same contract that the Padres did.  They could have gone year to year with him via salary arbitration for six years.

Yep, Tatis Jr. and Erik Johnson for Shields.  Sure wouldn’t want Tatis Jr. right now…

Stellar trade by the Sox.

Edited July 6, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I have browsed this site for awhile.

Saddest of all is that anyone would make such an embarrassing water carrying post for the Sox front office, as if they have ever been a group that you give the benefit of the doubt to.

You also ignored the fact that had the Sox kept Tatis Jr., they didn’t have to offer him the very same contract.  They could have gone year to year with him via salary arbitration for six years.

Yep, Tatis Jr. and Erik Johnson for Shields.  Sure wouldn’t want Tatis Jr. right now…