1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Is Holliday’s stock really down because of 34 bad at bats at age 20?  The guy currently has a .926 OPS at AAA.  I’m not buying that 34 bad at bats at age 20 have now made him no longer untouchable.

The #2 overall prospect in the MLB is still pretty “untouchable” these days.

It’s definitely down. I acknowledged his trade value is still very high but on a scale of 0-100 and, if it was at 100 last offseason, it is now more like a 95.

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Is Holliday’s stock really down because of 34 bad at bats at age 20?  The guy currently has a .926 OPS at AAA.  I’m not buying that 34 bad at bats at age 20 have now made him no longer untouchable.

The #2 overall prospect in the MLB is still pretty “untouchable” these days.

I don't think it's necessarily down.. But the Orioles have seen what Westburg can do in the MLB (all star caliber).  Going into this season, that was an unknown. Since he appears to be a stud, it may make Holliday expendable for the right guy (I don't think the Sox have that guy)

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If you took away cease two worst starts this year:

3.35 ERA/2.90 FIP

Pretty damn good, eh?

In his last 5 starts …he has 3 starts … 4 2/3, 3 2/3, 3 2/3 …giving up 4, 6, and 7 runs. I’m not excited.

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I don't think it's necessarily down.. But the Orioles have seen what Westburg can do in the MLB (all star caliber).  Going into this season, that was an unknown. Since he appears to be a stud, it may make Holliday expendable for the right guy (I don't think the Sox have that guy)

There are rumors of moving him to CF. Haven’t seen it yet …but rumors

3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Holliday is less valuable in a trade today than he was 6 months ago without a doubt. He’s still extremely valuable but imo no longer an untouchable like he was in the offseason.

I think Elias would have to be blown away to trade Holliday, Basallo, or Mayo. 

23 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

I think Elias would have to be blown away to trade Holliday, Basallo, or Mayo. 

Which is why Crochet to the Orioles is extremely unlikely to happen. 

29 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

There are rumors of moving him to CF. Haven’t seen it yet …but rumors

And this is what the Orioles and many other teams would do.  They will find a place for both guys.

Edited July 8, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

32 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Which is why Crochet to the Orioles is extremely unlikely to happen. 

Receiving one of the most dominant starters in the game, who is getting paid 800k at the moment, for 2.3 years, isn’t getting blown away? What do the O’s expect, the Sox to just hand out candy?

Edited July 8, 20241 yr by 4OCS

11 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

Receiving one of the most dominant starters in the game, who is getting paid 800k at the moment, for 2.3 years, isn’t getting blown away? What do the O’s expect, the Sox to just hand out candy?

Elias is a p****.  Crochet will go to a team with a GM that isn't. 

1 hour ago, 4OCS said:

Receiving one of the most dominant starters in the game, who is getting paid 800k at the moment, for 2.3 years, isn’t getting blown away? What do the O’s expect, the Sox to just hand out candy?

No …. It’s more likely Elias looks at Fedde ….or elsewhere 

42 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

Elias is a p****.  Crochet will go to a team with a GM that isn't. 

I don’t know. I’m not convinced by RolleTide. There’s only so man spots in the lineup, at some point you’d think Elias realize it would be better to convert some of them into high end major leaguers, and the brew crew can’t trade them Burnes for an underwhelming return again.

2 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

No …. It’s more likely Elias looks at Fedde ….or elsewhere 

I don’t expect the Sox to just give Fedde away either, nor any other team with a similarly quality arm. This is a seller’s market, holmes. There are about sixteen other teams in playoff contention you know, and Fedde’s value with that contract is not low either

5 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

I don’t know. I’m not convinced by RolleTide. There’s only so man spots in the lineup, at some point you’d think Elias realize it would be better to convert some of them into high end major leaguers, and the brew crew can’t trade them Burnes for an underwhelming return again.

If the Sox had all of the same positional talent, we would be horrified at the thought of trading them away.  It isn’t happening.  The Orioles have a couple older guys that they can eventually move away from in Mullins and Santander to free up lineup spots.

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

If the Sox had all of the same positional talent, we would be horrified at the thought of trading them away.  It isn’t happening.  The Orioles have a couple older guys that they can eventually move away from in Mullins and Santander to free up lineup spots.

For an ace pitcher with 2.3 years control at the height of their contention window? I don’t think so. If you can argue guys like Beavers and Norby are worth ace pitchers then you can argue they can provide that depth missing if you gave up a couple of the higher end ones. Even if the O’s traded Holliday and Mayo that would still leave them with ample positional depth over the next five plus years

Sure they could just trade for someone like Flaherty, but i don’t see how giving up good prospects for a pending free agent versus pitchers such as Crochet or Fedde, who are both significantly outproducing him and under longer control at considerably more reasonable rates of pay, makes any sense when the O’s are in position to win over the next couple years.

37 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

I don’t know. I’m not convinced by RolleTide. There’s only so man spots in the lineup, at some point you’d think Elias realize it would be better to convert some of them into high end major leaguers, and the brew crew can’t trade them Burnes for an underwhelming return again.

Not to mention their 40 man is going to have a crunch this winter.  They either trade now, or lose in the Rule 5.

49 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

I don’t know. I’m not convinced by RolleTide. There’s only so man spots in the lineup, at some point you’d think Elias realize it would be better to convert some of them into high end major leaguers, and the brew crew can’t trade them Burnes for an underwhelming return again.

Underwhelming? So far “Nicky Ortiz” is better than anything you got in the Cease trade.

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Not to mention their 40 man is going to have a crunch this winter.  They either trade now, or lose in the Rule 5.

They can and will purge vets ….Urias, Santander, Mateo, Mountcastle, Hays, …perhaps Burnes but hopefully they can resign him.

Edited July 8, 20241 yr by Rolle Tide

48 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

For an ace pitcher with 2.3 years control at the height of their contention window? I don’t think so. If you can argue guys like Beavers and Norby are worth ace pitchers then you can argue they can provide that depth missing if you gave up a couple of the higher end ones. Even if the O’s traded Holliday and Mayo that would still leave them with ample positional depth over the next five plus years

Sure they could just trade for someone like Flaherty, but i don’t see how giving up good prospects for a pending free agent versus pitchers such as Crochet or Fedde, who are both significantly outproducing him and under longer control at considerably more reasonable rates of pay, makes any sense when the O’s are in position to win over the next couple years.

I think they would target a guy like Fedde over Crochet due to the prospect price and I think some combination of Norby/Beavers/lesser prospects would be enough.  I don’t even consider Crochet an option for Baltimore because they won’t want to pay his price.

You thinking/hoping the Orioles give up their top prospects for Crochet or Fedde isn’t going to will it into existence.  We have already seen this song and dance with Elias.

Edited July 8, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

What makes this 400-page thread so much fun is that both sides know that the two teams aren’t going to be trade partners. 

21 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

Underwhelming? So far “Nicky Ortiz” is better than anything you got in the Cease trade.

The Brewers would trade Ortiz for Thorpe in a nanosecond.  And DL Hall absolutely blows because he walks the world.  It would be difficult to argue that the Sox didn’t get a better return for Cease than the Brewers did for Burnes.

Edited July 8, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

The Orioles will trade someone for pitching,  but it’s very likely to be someone like Kjerstad or Mayo. Not someone like Holliday or Basallo. 

4 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

The Orioles will trade someone for pitching,  but it’s very likely to be someone like Kjerstad or Mayo. Not someone like Holliday or Basallo. 

I bet they end up trading none of those names.

17 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

They can and will purge vets ….Urias, Santander, Mateo, Mountcastle, Hays, …perhaps Burnes but hopefully they can resign him.

Yep.  And Mountcastle isn’t even that old, but while he’s solid, he’s nothing special and could be moved.

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

I bet they end up trading none of those names.

My point is that there is a clear second or third tier to their prospects, even if the hype makes them all seem elite. I think they’ll move a guy that has warts that fans overlook because of name value. 

40 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said:

Underwhelming? So far “Nicky Ortiz” is better than anything you got in the Cease trade.

It’s about fit. Ortiz will be 28-29 by the time Sox are ready to win. I’d much prefer the Padres package 

52 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Not to mention their 40 man is going to have a crunch this winter.  They either trade now, or lose in the Rule 5.

Sox will have the top pick!