December 18, 20232 yr 29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It's hard to see any team giving up much for Eloy. Someday, he's going to figure out how to get the ball in the air more often, but thr Sox can't seem to help him. I don't think he's the problem child some make him out to be. His teammates love him. He did lose the weight the Sox wanted him to lose, and then his appendix burst. I guess what I'm getting at is I wouldn't trade him just to get rid of him. Agreed. He's probably worth more to the Sox right now than on the market.
December 19, 20232 yr On 12/17/2023 at 9:45 PM, ptatc said: The career. 800 Ops is awfully enticing though. That's a pretty good hitter. Last year there were 90 players in MLB who had an .800 OPS and 200+ PAs. An average team had 3. Eloy Jimenez was not one of them.
December 19, 20232 yr 55 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Last year there were 90 players in MLB who had an .800 OPS and 200+ PAs. An average team had 3. Eloy Jimenez was not one of them. And in 2022 he had an OPS of 858. His career OPS, is 811. A bigger sample size than last year.
December 19, 20232 yr But Eloy's lifetime averages as a DH are significantly the lowest compared to both corner outfield spots.
December 19, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: But Eloy's lifetime averages as a DH are significantly the lowest compared to both corner outfield spots. And..... No one mentioned anything about a position.
December 19, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, ptatc said: And..... No one mentioned anything about a position. Eloy hates playing DH. Eloy sucks playing DH. It matters to the discussion, as no team wants him as an OFer, and until he changes his attitude or approach, he is an expensive mediocre DH.
December 19, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said: Eloy hates playing DH. Eloy sucks playing DH. It matters to the discussion, as no team wants him as an OFer, and until he changes his attitude or approach, he is an expensive mediocre DH. Fair point about the splits. Where did you read that no one wants him as an OF?
December 19, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, ptatc said: Fair point about the splits. Where did you read that no one wants him as an OF? Besides an injury waiting to happen when he plays the OF. he is just average as a DH.
December 19, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Besides an injury waiting to happen when he plays the OF. he is just average as a DH. Seems like most of his injuries are running to first base. I know he had the pec repair after going over the wall.
December 19, 20232 yr If you could get a couple interesting pieces for him, I wouldn't mind trading him now. But in the meantime, there is no immediate replacement and might as well see if he bounces back as a full-time DH. He's proven he should never be in the OF. Can't really blame for the appendectomy though. Edited December 19, 20232 yr by Bob Sacamano
December 19, 20232 yr 10 hours ago, ptatc said: And in 2022 he had an OPS of 858. His career OPS, is 811. A bigger sample size than last year. Fine, let's do this. 2021, 231 plate appearances, .740 OPS, .293 BABIP. 2022, 327 plate appearances, .858 OPS, .337 BABIP. 2023, 489 plate appearances, .758 OPS, .305 BABIP. 3 years, 1047 plate appearances, .785 OPS. How much you wanna hang on "he's really the player that he was in 2020! That season is representative of everything!"? You say why we hate on people, why we don't say anything positive - because burying one's head in the ground and calling this adequate deserves a response. This is poor performance for anything but a backup or platoon player. It doesn't deserve compliments, and you can't even type his performance last year on its own because it was so bad that you have to lump in his 2020 to make it look better.
December 19, 20232 yr 33 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: If you could get a couple interesting pieces for him, I wouldn't mind trading him now. But in the meantime, there is no immediate replacement and might as well see if he bounces back as a full-time DH. He's proven he should never be in the OF. Can't really blame for the appendectomy though. I'd hold Eloy. But you also have to at least consider the fact that if he has another meh season in 2024, he's getting bought out and we get nothing in return. If someone makes a good offer for him, you really gotta consider it. But I am not just trading him for whatever to get him off the roster, that's for sure.
December 19, 20232 yr Just now, ChiSox59 said: I'd hold Eloy. But you also have to at least consider the fact that if he has another meh season in 2024, he's getting bought out and we get nothing in return. If someone makes a good offer for him, you really gotta consider it. But I am not just trading him for whatever to get him off the roster, that's for sure. Just the hypothetical - what if they're at their payroll limit, and trading Eloy clears another $14 million that you could spend on one of the remaining starting pitchers?
December 19, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Just the hypothetical - what if they're at their payroll limit, and trading Eloy clears another $14 million that you could spend on one of the remaining starting pitchers? Sadly, that limit would be really low.* *for a team in Chicago Edited December 19, 20232 yr by Bob Sacamano
December 19, 20232 yr 12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Fine, let's do this. 2021, 231 plate appearances, .740 OPS, .293 BABIP. 2022, 327 plate appearances, .858 OPS, .337 BABIP. 2023, 489 plate appearances, .758 OPS, .305 BABIP. 3 years, 1047 plate appearances, .785 OPS. How much you wanna hang on "he's really the player that he was in 2020! That season is representative of everything!"? You say why we hate on people, why we don't say anything positive - because burying one's head in the ground and calling this adequate deserves a response. This is poor performance for anything but a backup or platoon player. It doesn't deserve compliments, and you can't even type his performance last year on its own because it was so bad that you have to lump in his 2020 to make it look better. Each individual year doesn't hold as much weight as the entirety of his career. You can spin it anyway you want but his career OPS is 811. The that is a useful bat in the lineup that shouldn't just be given away for nothing.
December 19, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, ptatc said: Each individual year doesn't hold as much weight as the entirety of his career. You can spin it anyway you want but his career OPS is 811. The that is a useful bat in the lineup that shouldn't just be given away for nothing. And his OPS in the last 3 years is .785, averaging 350 plate appearances per year. 2020 doesn't hold as much weight as the last 3 years and that's literally all you're hanging on. And his OPS last year was .758. Is a .758 OPS DH a useful bat?
December 19, 20232 yr It is good to look at the average of last 3 seasons of a player. This is true for Cease and Jimenez as well. A player can have a great season that cannot ever be repeated. "The ceiling" is a nice to speculate, but never can be looked at as a norm.
December 19, 20232 yr 23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Just the hypothetical - what if they're at their payroll limit, and trading Eloy clears another $14 million that you could spend on one of the remaining starting pitchers? They're not at any sort of payroll limit. If you're going to buy more SP, may as well keep Eloy. What is the point in veteran SP if you don't score any runs? Eloy is one of the few guys on the Sox that could theoretically improve drastically offensively.
December 19, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And his OPS in the last 3 years is .785, averaging 350 plate appearances per year. 2020 doesn't hold as much weight as the last 3 years and that's literally all you're hanging on. And his OPS last year was .758. Is a .758 OPS DH a useful bat? If you want to cherry pick stats and arbitrarily say the 3 years means more fine. His 785 OPS is still well above the AL average of 730 over the past couple of years. So yes he still has a useful bat for a team that is well below average offensively. If you can say they will replace him with a much better hitter, I would agree. But until they get much better hitters, he is useful to this team. Edited December 19, 20232 yr by ptatc
December 19, 20232 yr 32 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Just the hypothetical - what if they're at their payroll limit, and trading Eloy clears another $14 million that you could spend on one of the remaining starting pitchers? If Eloy is half as bad as you say he is, how would the White Sox get that much salary relief?
December 19, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: They're not at any sort of payroll limit. If you're going to buy more SP, may as well keep Eloy. What is the point in veteran SP if you don't score any runs? Eloy is one of the few guys on the Sox that could theoretically improve drastically offensively. You know darn well they have a payroll limit man, come on.
December 19, 20232 yr 34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Just the hypothetical - what if they're at their payroll limit, and trading Eloy clears another $14 million that you could spend on one of the remaining starting pitchers? This I would agree with. Eloy is not an indispensable hitter. He is a hitter that is better than most of the others they have in the team. If they can trade him for anything more useful include money to sign a better starting pitcher, do it.
December 19, 20232 yr Just now, Balta1701 said: You know darn well they have a payroll limit man, come on. Agreed, we know they will have a limit. It just that no one knows where it is so it's all just guessing.
December 19, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If Eloy is half as bad as you say he is, how would the White Sox get that much salary relief? If Eloy is half as good as these people say then why aren't we talking about a top 100 prospect for him? He's a good hitter right? Last year we were told that Eloy and Hendriks for Jeff McNeil and the game's number 1 prospect was a move people didn't want to do because Eloy might hit 40 home runs and they needed the offense. If he's an .840 OPS hitter why aren't people beating down the door for him?
December 19, 20232 yr Sox should keep Eloy. The payroll is already down dramatically from last season’s team so it’s not like they need the salary relief. There aren’t many available free agent bats at a reasonable cost or players in the system to replace his bat so there’s no sense in dumping him for another Jake Eder.
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