What if we proposed a Kopech for Manoah swap?

I think what will be said is "they will get something good for Manoah" and I suppose that is true. But what I'm presupposing is, maybe it's not?

White Sox Acquire Alek Manoah, Cavan Biggio

Toronto Blue Jays Acquire Michael Kopech, Gregory Santos, Ky Bush

These are the things a rebuild is made of.

Rosenthal article on blue jays being willing to move manoah

https://theathletic.com/5074023/2023/11/19/mlb-free-agent-woodruff-braves-trades/

I imagine Manoah has far more value.  Even enough to be a Cease headliner. Regardless, I'd looove Monoah.

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I imagine Manoah has far more value.  Even enough to be a Cease headliner. Regardless, I'd looove Monoah.

Probably.

But the combo of shoulder issue + attitude making them open to leave + being so bad last year he was optioned is definitely a hit to the ole value block.

48 minutes ago, bmags said:

What if we proposed a Kopech for Manoah swap?

I think what will be said is "they will get something good for Manoah" and I suppose that is true. But what I'm presupposing is, maybe it's not?

White Sox Acquire Alek Manoah, Cavan Biggio

Toronto Blue Jays Acquire Michael Kopech, Gregory Santos, Ky Bush

These are the things a rebuild is made of.

Until shown otherwise Santos is "iffy." Remember they shut him down with a forearm strain. 

Want nothing to do with Manoah. He is so out of shape and keeps on getting bigger each year. 

Manoah is a lazy blimp. I’d pass hard on him.

 

I wouldn't trade Kopech because he might be really, really good, so hold on to him and see.  The Sox don't have a lot of really, really good.  The whole operation is was so effed up last season that I wouldn't sell low on these guys.  His two prior years were pretty good.

And Manoah, I get it, isn't necessarily selling law.  But his blowup was alarming (much greater than either Cease or Kopech's blow-up);  the Jays were a good team so there is no context to it.

plus the Jays appear to be peddling him, which, to me, means "stay away."

1 hour ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Manoah is a lazy blimp. I’d pass hard on him.

Surely the Sox staff would motivate the heck out of him...right?

Getting closer and closer to Bauer being a realistic option and him willing to take a small salary for one year in order to be traded to a playoff contender second half.

Edited November 21, 20232 yr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

 

I wouldn't trade Kopech because he might be really, really good, so hold on to him and see.  The Sox don't have a lot of really, really good.  The whole operation is was so effed up last season that I wouldn't sell low on these guys.  His two prior years were pretty good.

And Manoah, I get it, isn't necessarily selling law.  But his blowup was alarming (much greater than either Cease or Kopech's blow-up);  the Jays were a good team so there is no context to it.

plus the Jays appear to be peddling him, which, to me, means "stay away."

Guarantee Kopech would turn things around if he ends up with a competitive team and new teammates/coaching staff surrounding him.

If their years of control Were even I could buy this. Manoah has only 1.130 years of service time so he’s still pre arb and if I’m counting this right he would have 5 years of control as a super 2 player, compared to 2 with Kopech.

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If their years of control Were even I could buy this. Manoah has only 1.130 years of service time so he’s still pre arb and if I’m counting this right he would have 5 years of control as a super 2 player, compared to 2 with Kopech.

I gave them more

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

I gave them more

Is Biggio a negative? 

I just can’t imagine the Sox being the team that gets Manaoh back into form. 

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Is Biggio a negative? 

More defensive versatility than offensive prowess, though he seemed to make some strides last year. Definitely not in the same child of former star pedigree as Bichette and Guerrero. 

Manoah fell off a cliff, got super in his head, and regressed so badly that I don’t even know how much good a change of scenery would do. In the Don Cooper heyday of fixing guys maybe, but with Katz’s body of work I wouldn’t expect such a miracle. 

Isn't Manoah a bit of a dick? Not that Kopech is some choir boy but I do like Getz bringing in character guys and weeding out the cancers so far. 

https://soxmachine.com/2023/10/the-white-sox-bridge-to-2025/

Some interesting ideas they claim would get team to 80-82 wins...no way they spend $30 million on Gio and Flaherty combined.

Anderson trade to ATL already out the window.

Eloy traded.

Gary Sanchez acquired.

Terrible terrible bench.

No Bryan Shaw.

6 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

More defensive versatility than offensive prowess, though he seemed to make some strides last year. Definitely not in the same child of former star pedigree as Bichette and Guerrero. 

He also is a bench player who has no starting role but god I hate nick Lopez so I’m grabbing him.

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://soxmachine.com/2023/10/the-white-sox-bridge-to-2025/

Some interesting ideas they claim would get team to 80-82 wins...no way they spend $30 million on Gio and Flaherty combined.

Anderson trade to ATL already out the window.

Eloy traded.

Gary Sanchez acquired.

Terrible terrible bench.

No Bryan Shaw.

Wow yeah super relevant in the thread about trading for manoah

6 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

More defensive versatility than offensive prowess, though he seemed to make some strides last year. Definitely not in the same child of former star pedigree as Bichette and Guerrero. 

Same category of?

37 minutes ago, bmags said:

Wow yeah super relevant in the thread about trading for manoah

So we should now start a separate possible trades thread?   But it is not only that, it’s about the entire direction of the franchise from 2023 to 2025…so there should be a catch all thread about organizational positioning and philosophy?

Do the White Sox even have a better one than SoxMachine?

Plus, we already have the Tim Dierkes MLB Trade Rumors FA’s thread.

 

An MLB team named another new manager too…but that’s not worthy of a thread either, but a trade that will never happen because of the risk of it completely backfiring on Chris “Risk Aversion” Getz makes it about as realistic as Trevor Bauer to the Sox.

Edited November 22, 20232 yr by caulfield12

8 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Isn't Manoah a bit of a dick? Not that Kopech is some choir boy but I do like Getz bringing in character guys and weeding out the cancers so far. 

Going to be a great day when they move on from Moncada, whether that be trade or DFA.

3 hours ago, bmags said:

He also is a bench player who has no starting role but god I hate nick Lopez so I’m grabbing him.

As a throw in, I’m down. But expect more Michael Jordan Jr than Air Jordan. 

2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

As a throw in, I’m down. But expect more Michael Jordan Jr than Air Jordan. 

He is not good, I agree.