1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Don't forget, JR was offered this site over 35 years ago.

My recollection is that Reinsdorf was trying to keep the project as cheap as possible for fear it wouldn't get through Springfield. 

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Don't forget, JR was offered this site over 35 years ago.

... and he accepted it. But the city's offer was for a domed stadium shared by the Sox and Bears. And the Bears had no interest in it.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1986-06-16-8602120949-story.html

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Sure they would like to get it, but at least $1 billion for the stadium is a steep price to pay, and how are they going to get any of that back? Apartments and condos maybe, but if they are so lucrative, why haven't they built anything yet?

To me, it's the best site for a White Sox park available. But it costs too much, and who really would put up the cash? You need someone like Steve Cohen or someone else who isn't keeping score with how much money they have when they die. If Pat Ryan were involved, I would think there's a chance. But JR? No way.

I'm told by somebody close to the situation that JR wants a new stadium. He does not want to continue at the present stadium when the lease runs out.

16 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I'm told by somebody close to the situation that JR wants a new stadium. He does not want to continue at the present stadium when the lease runs out.

I've been told the same thing by several people with a firm grasp on the obvious.

22 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I'm told by somebody close to the situation that JR wants a new stadium. He does not want to continue at the present stadium when the lease runs out.

I would love to live in the $13 million penthouse at 1500 N. LSD. Doesn't mean that I will. If JR wants a new home. great. Do what the rest of the world has to do and start writing checks.

Someone needs to tell JR public building of baseball stadiums is a harder racket to make money than even owning a baseball team.

Edited January 23, 20242 yr by Dick Allen

24 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I'm told by somebody close to the situation that JR wants a new stadium. He does not want to continue at the present stadium when the lease runs out.

What JR wants won't matter when he won't be around.

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I would love to live in the $13 million penthouse at 1500 N. LSD. Doesn't mean that I will. If JR wants a new home. great. Do what the rest of the world has to do and start writing checks.

Someone needs to tell JR public building of baseball stadiums is a harder racket to make money than even owning a baseball team.

The difference is Jerry is the only guy in Chicago to build an entirely new major sports stadium since 1929.  He's actually gotten what he wants in the past, and it currently sitting at the table to do it a third time.  Pretty sure you have never bought an LSD penthouse.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

The difference is Jerry is the only guy in Chicago to build an entirely new major sports stadium since 1929.  He's actually gotten what he wants in the past, and it currently sitting at the table to do it a third time.  Pretty sure you have never bought an LSD penthouse.

I've bought a penthouse and LSD, but I'm pretty sure not the same as what you're talking about

17 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I've been told the same thing by several people with a firm grasp on the obvious.

I was told this weeks ago before the South Loop announcement.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The difference is Jerry is the only guy in Chicago to build an entirely new major sports stadium since 1929.  He's actually gotten what he wants in the past, and it currently sitting at the table to do it a third time.  Pretty sure you have never bought an LSD penthouse.

He only got infrastructure for the UC, and it was 98% funded by Japanese banks.  He got what he wanted with the baseball park, but that isn't going to happen again. For one thing, he doesn't have a structure falling apart. The ISFA was pretty upset how favorable his lease is.  And those were both over 30 years ago. GRF cost $137 million to build. The state still owes $50 million on it. Good luck JR. 

 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

He only got infrastructure for the UC, and it was 98% funded by Japanese banks.  He got what he wanted with the baseball park, but that isn't going to happen again. For one thing, he doesn't have a structure falling apart. The ISFA was pretty upset how favorable his lease is.  And those were both over 30 years ago. GRF cost $137 million to build. The state still owes $50 million on it. Good luck JR. 

 

How much have the Sox paid back?

Just now, pcq said:

How much have the Sox paid back?

Very little. What they have paid in rent probably doesn't even cover the upkeep. And they got a free restaurant and team store, for which they pay nothing. For all these gifts, the least JR could do is field a major league team.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

He only got infrastructure for the UC, and it was 98% funded by Japanese banks.  He got what he wanted with the baseball park, but that isn't going to happen again. For one thing, he doesn't have a structure falling apart. The ISFA was pretty upset how favorable his lease is.  And those were both over 30 years ago. GRF cost $137 million to build. The state still owes $50 million on it. Good luck JR. 

 

And if he puts some leverage into it, so what?  It's going to be a long term deal that he may never actually pay a dime off of, yet will fully profit from when the team gets sold after his death.  He's still playing with OPM with his age as a factor.

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And if he puts some leverage into it, so what?  It's going to be a long term deal that he may never actually pay a dime off of, yet will fully profit from when the team gets sold after his death.  He's still playing with OPM with his age as a factor.

Unless JR comes up with a plan to pay for it, this is going to drag on for years. I just can't wait until Manfred waltzes into town saying the White Sox must have a new park. They need a new owner. I used to like JR, but I'm sick of watching him get free money. 

You gotta love the it's so hard to make money in baseball line he has on one hand, and on the other, he can't sell, his capital gaines tax will be too large.

Edited January 23, 20242 yr by Dick Allen

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Unless JR comes up with a plan to pay for it, this is going to drag on for years. I just can't wait until Manfred waltzes into town saying the White Sox must have a new park. They need a new owner. I used to like JR, but I'm sick of watching him get free money. 

You gotta love the it's so hard to make money in baseball line he has on one hand, and on the other, he can't sell, his capital gaines tax will be too large.

Like I said, he can come up with whatever plan he wants.  The man is 87.  The 2030 season is six years away.  If he puts together a plan that starts with the building of a stadium in 2027, he would to be 90 when the first payment is made.  If the repayments start with the opening of the stadium he will be 93, if he is still around for that.

So if the man puts together a plan for the ownership group to repay $500 million, or even a cool billion dollars, how many of those checks do you think Jerry would actually sign?

The other side of the coin is once he does die, his estate get a minimum of 20% of the selling price franchise, probably more if the rumors of his buying up old ownership shares along the way are true.  As of the last Forbes report the Sox are worth $2.05 billion.  With as few teams as have gone up for sale recent, and how far over that Forbes price they go for, this could well add hundreds of millions to the final asking price.  If it adds $500 million, that is at least an extra hundred million to Michael and the family, without having to pay for it.  If they push this to a $3 billion valuation, that is $600 million in cold hard cash, all while not paying for a thing to do with the new stadium, or very, very little of it.

The guy is literally pushing hundreds of millions of dollars to his family playing with other people's money to pay for it.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like I said, he can come up with whatever plan he wants.  The man is 87.  The 2030 season is six years away.  If he puts together a plan that starts with the building of a stadium in 2027, he would to be 90 when the first payment is made.  If the repayments start with the opening of the stadium he will be 93, if he is still around for that.

So if the man puts together a plan for the ownership group to repay $500 million, or even a cool billion dollars, how many of those checks do you think Jerry would actually sign?

The other side of the coin is once he does die, his estate get a minimum of 20% of the selling price franchise, probably more if the rumors of his buying up old ownership shares along the way are true.  As of the last Forbes report the Sox are worth $2.05 billion.  With as few teams as have gone up for sale recent, and how far over that Forbes price they go for, this could well add hundreds of millions to the final asking price.  If it adds $500 million, that is at least an extra hundred million to Michael and the family, without having to pay for it.  If they push this to a $3 billion valuation, that is $600 million in cold hard cash, all while not paying for a thing to do with the new stadium, or very, very little of it.

The guy is literally pushing hundreds of millions of dollars to his family playing with other people's money to pay for it.

But he's never operated this way. And guys his age don't change their stripes. It's one of the reasons the Sox won't get it right until he steps away. 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

But he's never operated this way. And guys his age don't change their stripes. It's one of the reasons the Sox won't get it right until he steps away. 

He's never operated this way because he has never built a new stadium at 90 years old before.  The man is not stupid.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

He's never operated this way because he has never built a new stadium at 90 years old before.  The man is not stupid.

 So you are saying JR is building the stadium?  I'm saying, if he really wants it built, that's what's got to happen.

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 So you are saying JR is building the stadium?  I'm saying, if he really wants it built, that's what's got to happen.

Like I said, there is literally zero downside to his taking on debt to finance the stadium in the ownership group.  He won't be around to pay it, and once the team gets sold, neither will his kid.  Obviously he tries to get the best deal possible still, and pay as little as they can, but he is literally not going to live long enough to care.

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like I said, there is literally zero downside to his taking on debt to finance the stadium in the ownership group.  He won't be around to pay it, and once the team gets sold, neither will his kid.  Obviously he tries to get the best deal possible still, and pay as little as they can, but he is literally not going to live long enough to care.

He's been in that same situation for many years. It hasn't changed him.

If this happens I hope they still keep ticket prices reasonable and don't jack them up like Wrigley prices.

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Do what the rest of the world has to do and start writing checks.

 

Except that's not really how the rest of the world always does it. Musk didn't move to Texas entirely on his own dime. There were plenty of incentives and future tax breaks. All those tax deductions for buying a Tesla avoided real pricing issues for the company. The last development board I sat on handed money to anyone who would increase hotel occupancy, from Sand Castles to Harley's. 

Business are given incentives all the time. The Sox getting some isn't extraordinary. The debate is really how much? 

3 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Except that's not really how the rest of the world always does it. Musk didn't move to Texas entirely on his own dime. There were plenty of incentives and future tax breaks. All those tax deductions for buying a Tesla avoided real pricing issues for the company. The last development board I sat on handed money to anyone who would increase hotel occupancy, from Sand Castles to Harley's. 

Business are given incentives all the time. The Sox getting some isn't extraordinary. The debate is really how much? 

Infrastructure. I have no problem with that. Anything else, they already have taken the state for a ride.

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Infrastructure. I have no problem with that. Anything else, they already have taken the state for a ride.

What about environmental remediation and site preparation?

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What about environmental remediation and site preparation?

Depends. Not the whole bill though. This is private property, If it were state or city owned land, for sure Besides if this is such a great deal for the state, it's even better for JR. Let him show us all the money it will make. . It seems hard for me to believe that haven't done tests yet. They have owned the property for some time, an d I would think purchasing the property may be grounds for testing it first.

Edited January 23, 20242 yr by Dick Allen