Garrett Crochet named Opening Day starter

[southsider2k5]

31 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Because, when a pitcher throws 7 innings in a major league game, they get wired that the TJS rehabbers threw a simulated game in Arizona, or actually pitched to live batters in a complex game, so then everybody comes back out on the field at night, and they play an intra-squad game so all the pitchers throw the same amount of innings to live batters, just so their work load is more. 

It's just silly at this point. If the White Sox slow-walked Crochet, then everybody would be screaming that slow-walking Crochet is the absolute worst thing to do!!! He's already proven everything he has to at AAA, and Reinsdorf's just trying to claw back another year of cheap control!!!

Nobody's even trying to make sense with their mic-drop comments. Only when we're knee deep in microphones do we realize nothing has really been said. 

Crochet threw 6 innings. He said his arm felt good. I'm sure the club will adjust accordingly if something changes. 

Lol, do you you look things up before you say them?  Garrett Crochet has thrown a grand total of 6.1 innings in AAA in his career.  He has thrown 6 at AA. His entire MiLB career is 12.1 innings.

[Tnetennba]

18 hours ago, pmb0928 said:

For decades there were 4 man rotations. A pitcher barely reaches  200 innings anymore. They used to throw 250-300 consistently.  There wasn't all these am injuries like there is now.  If you use something more it gets stronger.  Also if you learn how to pitch you don't have to give max effort all the time.  It's why kopech stocks.  He throws,  doesn't pitch.  

Crochet looked smooth out there, he didn't have to give max effort every pitch.  

Greg Maddux was on the DL for a total of 15 days in 23 seasons.  

 

Did Maddox throw 100mph repeatedly day after day year round? Did any of the guys throwing 250-300 innings back then? Did they snap off countless sliders as well? A pitch that wreaks havoc on elbow tendons?

The answer is no.

Guys throwing near 100mph and over were rare when 4 man rotations and 300 innings were commonplace. I'm not disputing history here, but if you think guys throwing 100mph isn't max effort, or that how arms are handled today is coddling, then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

Edited March 30 by Tnetennba

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, hi8is said:

Didn’t say this… or much… in the game thread… but I dug the broadcast and liked the new guy way more than Jason.

Seriously, give it time.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Did Maddox throw 100mph repeatedly day after day year round? Did any of the guys throwing 250-300 innings back then? Did they snap off countless sliders as well? A pitch that wreaks havoc on elbow tendons?

The answer is no.

Guys throwing near 100mph and over were rare when 4 man rotations and 300 innings were commonplace. I'm not disputing history here, but if you think guys throwing 100mph isn't max effort, or that how arms are handled today is coddling, then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

 

 

 

 

The average fastball in the era of 300+ IP and 4 man rotations was more like the mid 80s. A guy who threw 95 regularly, like Nolan Ryan, was a freak of nature.

[Tnetennba]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The average fastball in the era of 300+ IP and 4 man rotations was more like the mid 80s. A guy who threw 95 regularly, like Nolan Ryan, was a freak of nature.

Exactly. Maddox was a soft tossing finesse/control guy. I don't even know if he threw a slider. 

Guys throwing mid 90s weren't commonplace even in the 1990s. There is a big big difference between the wear and tear on the arm, elbow, and shoulder today than even the 80s and 90s. Countless pitching analysts say that guys are max-effort throwers now. I'm no kinesiologist, but the data is readily available. It's not hard to figure out why guys aren't throwing 250 innings any more.

Calling that coddling is willfully ignorant.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is complete bullshit and it’s incredibly annoying and arrogant that you continue to make these claims.  There is literally nothing worse than the board crusader who fights the good fight against theoretical comments never actually said.  You’re 100% welcome to have a different opinion than the majority of the board without constantly needing to fabricate others’ viewpoints in some bizarre attempt at belittling the rest of us.

Do you even read the comments here? 

[4OCS]

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The guy who actually work in baseball as an actual trainer feels he has 80 to 100 innings in him tops this year, so no it isn't "flabbergasting" to think this. In fact your completely unsupported and un proven opinion is the one that qualifies as "flabbergasting".

Give me one example like Garrett Crochet in baseball going from 30 innings a year on average for the years before their surgery to a full starter work load.

Sure, as soon as you explain how someone retains any of their previous arm strength after TJS and subsequent arm immobilization during healing

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

Sure, as soon as you explain how someone retains any of their previous arm strength after TJS and subsequent arm immobilization during healing

So it's literally never happened and you've got nothing.

[WestEddy]

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Lol, do you you look things up before you say them?  Garrett Crochet has thrown a grand total of 6.1 innings in AAA in his career.  He has thrown 6 at AA. His entire MiLB career is 12.1 innings.

You've crossed over into funny-land. You get an A+ for being able to read the back of a baseball card. 

I'll just keep saying this: Crochet threw 6 innings. He said his arm felt good. I'm sure the club will adjust accordingly if something changes. 

I'm also sure a big part of his between start protocol is for a coach to keep yelling at him, "Do you realize you only pitched 73 major league innings before this year?!?!?"

Edited March 31 by WestEddy

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

You've crossed over into funny-land. You get an A+ for being able to read the back of a baseball card. 

I'll just keep saying this: Crochet threw 6 innings. He said his arm felt good. I'm sure the club will adjust accordingly if something changes. 

I'm also sure a big part of his between start protocol is for a coach to keep yelling at him, "Do you realize you only pitched 73 major league innings before this year?!?!?"

Considering they have all talked about innings limits, yes, I would assume they talked about not being able to handle a normal starters load because he isn't conditioned for it.  I don't know when you turned into Baghdad Bob here, but this isn't even funny bad.

[WestEddy]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Considering they have all talked about innings limits, yes, I would assume they talked about not being able to handle a normal starters load because he isn't conditioned for it.  I don't know when you turned into Baghdad Bob here, but this isn't even funny bad.

I'm just going to go ahead and say you don't know this. We're entering "my math proves that bumble bees can't fly" territory. 

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm just going to go ahead and say you don't know this. We're entering "my math proves that bumble bees can't fly" territory. 

You are actually arguing the statement Crochet isn’t conditioned to go an MLB starters workload? 

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm just going to go ahead and say you don't know this. We're entering "my math proves that bumble bees can't fly" territory. 

You are just going to go ahead and be wrong.  Otherwise no one would be mentioning innings limits.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

You are actually arguing the statement Crochet isn’t conditioned to go an MLB starters workload? 

Yes he will.

Repeatedly and loudly.

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

You are actually arguing the statement Crochet isn’t conditioned to go an MLB starters workload? 

I am arguing that Crochet is most probably conditioned to throw 90-100 starter innings this season. Your question is confusing. 

I'm really not understanding why everybody is digging in on this. He is literally starting major league baseball games despite dudes yelling random stats off the back of his baseball card. I watch the TeeVee, and I have opinions, too, but professional trainers and doctors have overseen his rehab, and have cleared him to pitch. I know that's not as good as some guy sitting in his La-Z Boy opining, but it'll just have to do. 

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are just going to go ahead and be wrong.  Otherwise no one would be mentioning innings limits.

Oh, now you're switching to innings limits? You're going to pretend you were arguing what I was saying all along? Too funny. 

I'm not going to go back and read the whole string, but I'm pretty sure you have no idea how conditioned Crochet is. I don't remember where, but I read they're going to get him to 90-100 IP. You seem to think that any throwing outside of major league games is useless in building up arm strength, and it doesn't matter because all other pitchers do the same, if not more, so somehow, other pitchers throwing take innings away from Crochet. 

We're to the point where I can tell you that you are a sentient, oxygen breathing life form, and you'll argue against that. 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Oh, now you're switching to innings limits? You're going to pretend you were arguing what I was saying all along? Too funny. 

I'm not going to go back and read the whole string, but I'm pretty sure you have no idea how conditioned Crochet is. I don't remember where, but I read they're going to get him to 90-100 IP. You seem to think that any throwing outside of major league games is useless in building up arm strength, and it doesn't matter because all other pitchers do the same, if not more, so somehow, other pitchers throwing take innings away from Crochet. 

We're to the point where I can tell you that you are a sentient, oxygen breathing life form, and you'll argue against that. 

What if I told you that his conditioning as a pitcher directly leads to what kind of a workload he can manage in a particular season?  

Oh right I (and literally every other responder but 1) have only been saying it for pages and apparently you couldn't understand that.

Now I understand why you are so angry with everyone,  it is too complex for you apparently. 

[WestEddy]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

What if I told you that his conditioning as a pitcher directly leads to what kind of a workload he can manage in a particular season?  

Oh right I (and literally every other responder but 1) have only been saying it for pages and apparently you couldn't understand that.

Now I understand why you are so angry with everyone,  it is too complex for you apparently. 

What if I said, "No s%*#, sherlock!"? What if I said you have no idea what kind of conditioning program Crochet was on, or how many actual innings he threw that weren't logged on the back of his baseball card? But no, you're a doctor of reading B-R.com, and you can see the number "12", and that's not "198", so...bad. 

You've spent pages just arguing nonsense, and not stating anything. You don't believe that any throwing outside of pitching in major league games is "conditioning". You have argued that bullpens, and complex games, and any other throwing programs are meaningless because other pitchers do them, too, so that, somehow, takes all of that away from Crochet. 

I'm not angry. You're too busy trying to disprove any sentence I write with nonsense, instead of having an actual point. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What if I said, "No s%*#, sherlock!"? What if I said you have no idea what kind of conditioning program Crochet was on, or how many actual innings he threw that weren't logged on the back of his baseball card? But no, you're a doctor of reading B-R.com, and you can see the number "12", and that's not "198", so...bad. 

You've spent pages just arguing nonsense, and not stating anything. You don't believe that any throwing outside of pitching in major league games is "conditioning". You have argued that bullpens, and complex games, and any other throwing programs are meaningless because other pitchers do them, too, so that, somehow, takes all of that away from Crochet. 

I'm not angry. You're too busy trying to disprove any sentence I write with nonsense, instead of having an actual point. 

People have been telling you there is no substitute for pitching when it comes to being conditioned for pitching, and that because Garrett Crochet has never been healthy enough to pitch a starters workload, he isn't conditioned for a starters workload,  but somehow Baghdad Bob has spun up some vast conspiracy where despite being injured perpetually,  Garrett Crochet has accumulated enough conditioning in some secret, but totally enough, place to fool even the White Sox professionals who say he isn't conditioned for a full starters workload, despite the gap between he and every other full time starter being right there for you to see with any common sense at all.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

People have been telling you there is no substitute for pitching when it comes to being conditioned for pitching, and that because Garrett Crochet has never been healthy enough to pitch a starters workload, he isn't conditioned for a starters workload,  but somehow Baghdad Bob has spun up some vast conspiracy where despite being injured perpetually,  Garrett Crochet has accumulated enough conditioning in some secret, but totally enough, place to fool even the White Sox professionals who say he isn't conditioned for a full starters workload, despite the gap between he and every other full time starter being right there for you to see with any common sense at all.

Well you see if that wasn’t true then that would make Katz and Getz irresponsible, and since we know that they are excellent at their jobs it must be true that he threw innings somewhere else. The important thing is that we know the leadership has done a great job.

No I didn’t write this post in 2014, why do you ask?

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

People have been telling you there is no substitute for pitching when it comes to being conditioned for pitching, and that because Garrett Crochet has never been healthy enough to pitch a starters workload, he isn't conditioned for a starters workload,  but somehow Baghdad Bob has spun up some vast conspiracy where despite being injured perpetually,  Garrett Crochet has accumulated enough conditioning in some secret, but totally enough, place to fool even the White Sox professionals who say he isn't conditioned for a full starters workload, despite the gap between he and every other full time starter being right there for you to see with any common sense at all.

Okay, here we go with the name-calling. And the BS lies. I never said some secret location. I said that he logged innings in complex games that don't show up in the stats. You countered that other pitchers throw on the side, so that means that  Crochet didn't actually throw any extra innings than what you can read on the back of his baseball card. That's you, digging in on nonsense, just to not to concede any part of any point. 

You're shadow boxing, here. I seriously hope you find this "Baghdad Bob" guy and prove him wrong. As far as our discussion, I'm not sure what you're even doing, at this point. Nobody on this board has argued that Crochet should throw 180 innings (a full starter's load) this year. I've repeatedly said I thought they'd shut/ramp him down at 90-100 IP. So it seems that I'm agreeing with "White Sox professionals". 

I hope you enjoy your trip to Baghdad. 

 

 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, here we go with the name-calling. And the BS lies. I never said some secret location. I said that he logged innings in complex games that don't show up in the stats. You countered that other pitchers throw on the side, so that means that  Crochet didn't actually throw any extra innings than what you can read on the back of his baseball card. That's you, digging in on nonsense, just to not to concede any part of any point. 

You're shadow boxing, here. I seriously hope you find this "Baghdad Bob" guy and prove him wrong. As far as our discussion, I'm not sure what you're even doing, at this point. Nobody on this board has argued that Crochet should throw 180 innings (a full starter's load) this year. I've repeatedly said I thought they'd shut/ramp him down at 90-100 IP. So it seems that I'm agreeing with "White Sox professionals". 

I hope you enjoy your trip to Baghdad. 

 

 

White Sox: “we’re going to make Crochet a starter”.

Us: “that’s great just bring him along slowly”

Getz and Kats: “no”.

WE: “they just know what they’re doing, as long as they have an innings limit on him or about 100”.

Getz and Kats in July when he’s close to 90 innings: “Now let’s burn rubber baby!”

WE: in July: “well he’s been so successful in the first half let’s keep going, they must know what they’re doing.”

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

I am arguing that Crochet is most probably conditioned to throw 90-100 starter innings this season. Your question is confusing. 

I'm really not understanding why everybody is digging in on this. He is literally starting major league baseball games despite dudes yelling random stats off the back of his baseball card. I watch the TeeVee, and I have opinions, too, but professional trainers and doctors have overseen his rehab, and have cleared him to pitch. I know that's not as good as some guy sitting in his La-Z Boy opining, but it'll just have to do. 

And outside of off the top of your head, how do you come up with those numbers? And even with your numbers , he's half a season as the #1 guy. My problem  is even though he was spectacular,  they let him through more pitches on opening day than everyone but 3 or 4 guys  in the league. I MO, that's just asking for trouble with a guy that has been constantly  injured.

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

White Sox: “we’re going to make Crochet a starter”.

Us: “that’s great just bring him along slowly”

Getz and Kats: “no”.

WE: “they just know what they’re doing, as long as they have an innings limit on him or about 100”.

Getz and Kats in July when he’s close to 90 innings: “Now let’s burn rubber baby!”

WE: in July: “well he’s been so successful in the first half let’s keep going, they must know what they’re doing.”

I suppose when your entire waking hours are spent spouting pearl-clutching nonsense, you have to make up quotes to give some semblance of cred to it. 

You know what? You're right. No baseball player should throw a baseball until 4 full years after his TJS. 

You are a ridiculous person. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I suppose when your entire waking hours are spent spouting pearl-clutching nonsense, you have to make up quotes to give some semblance of cred to it. 

You know what? You're right. No baseball player should throw a baseball until 4 full years after his TJS. 

You are a ridiculous person. 

Didn’t you just justifiably complain about someone calling you a name two posts ago? I guess it’s ok as long as you are the one doing it. You’re important and correct.