1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I was waiting to see who would catch this.  We keep hearing about how lazy and bad of teammates some of these guys are, but Michael Kopech is the only I have seen who keeps saying the quiet parts out loud. 

Graveman and Mr. Steak and Potatoes hardly seemed to care if Liam Hendriks was living or dead.  Were they any better?

Lots of dirty laundry in 2023 spilled out.

The 2024 team just did a better job of not turning on each other because there were a lot more unproven younger players and the majority of vets were already out the door.

Are the Sox really any better off now, though?  They are younger and cheaper and more profitable or loss-averse from a financial standpoint.

Players I do not want on the Sox:   "I was in a position to where I hate to say I was going through the motions. You know you’re not playing for anything other than your own career, and when you don’t want to play a selfish game because it’s not a selfish game, it makes it really hard."

Players I want on the Sox: " I am in a position to show leadership through work ethic, attitude, and communication to inspire my teammates to never quit and pull together as a team."

 

Real World : If your wife/girlfriend asks you if she looks fat in an outfit, answer : "no, you look great" , anything she's cooks is delicious, her new hair style is awesome.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Falstaff

15 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

Players I do not want on the Sox:   "I was in a position to where I hate to say I was going through the motions. You know you’re not playing for anything other than your own career, and when you don’t want to play a selfish game because it’s not a selfish game, it makes it really hard."

Players I want on the Sox: " I am in a position to show leadership through work ethic, attitude, and communication to inspire my teammates to never quit and pull together as a team."

 

Real World : If your wife/girlfriend asks you if she looks fat in an outfit, answer : "no, you look great" , anything she's cooks is delicious, her new hair style is awesome.

If you're not able to actually be honest in these situations, that's not a good thing.

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The reason why there's a losing culture is because players like Kopech, Robert, Benintendi, Moncada, Eloy etc didn't play up to their abilities.  Move on from all of them and never look back.  

Unlike Gavin Lux, who has fully lived up to that vaunted potential you told us about!

4 hours ago, Tony said:

I think it's incredibly honest and if you gave truth serum to the 2024 White Sox, my guess is a majority of the players would say the same thing. They won 41 games. By July, from a simple human perspective, I think it's a very natural reaction. Of course I would want every player to be giving 100% all the time. I also don't think it's realistic. And while I completely understand baseball is different than most other professional fields, if you're at a job or with a company that has zero direction, poor leadership, poor training and poor infrastructure...when you roll up to your cube each day, are you going "all-in" for that company each day, giving it max effort all 40 hours a week? For most...probably not? 

I'm not defending Kopech and saying his actions are acceptable, but I'd also be a liar if I said I didn't understand where he was coming from with that quote. 

This is honest to god, complete bullshit for an athlete. It is not human nature to not try in your passion OR at a game when things aren't going well. It not human nature to not try to get the most out of what you've been given when given immense opportunity.

I've been in circumstances you lay out and I certainly didn't degrade my own self standards because of the subpar standards or outputs of others.

Edit: After consideration, I've edited to better reflect.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is honest to god, complete bullshit. It is not human nature to not try in your career OR at a game when things aren't going well. It not human nature to not try to get the most out of what you've been given.

I've been in circumstances you lay out and I certainly didn't degrade my own self standards because of the subpar standards or outputs of others.

I need to introduce you to so, so many people.

1 hour ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

If I'm playing Major League Baseball for a living 100 percent yes I am. If I sell insurance no. Highly false equivalency. 

But you're not playing Major League Baseball and you have no idea what it would be like to have your season be over 2 weeks into a 6 month long grind. People need to get out of the mindset its just adults playing a game for a living when its a far more demanding career than the majority of the fanbase that criticizes it has.

2 hours ago, Tony said:

I think it's incredibly honest and if you gave truth serum to the 2024 White Sox, my guess is a majority of the players would say the same thing. They won 41 games. By July, from a simple human perspective, I think it's a very natural reaction. Of course I would want every player to be giving 100% all the time. I also don't think it's realistic. And while I completely understand baseball is different than most other professional fields, if you're at a job or with a company that has zero direction, poor leadership, poor training and poor infrastructure...when you roll up to your cube each day, are you going "all-in" for that company each day, giving it max effort all 40 hours a week? For most...probably not? 

I'm not defending Kopech and saying his actions are acceptable, but I'd also be a liar if I said I didn't understand where he was coming from with that quote. 

This comparison does not work.  We are not playing a kid's sport being paid millions of dollars and are celebrities.  Please stop using the everyday folks to dudes/gals that play professional sports and make tons of money and have all the fame.

Bad comparison.  

16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Unlike Gavin Lux, who has fully lived up to that vaunted potential you told us about!

He will once we trade Robert and prospects for him.

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is honest to god, complete bullshit. It is not human nature to not try in your career OR at a game when things aren't going well. It not human nature to not try to get the most out of what you've been given.

I've been in circumstances you lay out and I certainly didn't degrade my own self standards because of the subpar standards or outputs of others.

What are you talking about, the majority of people on this earth give up when things get hard or aren't going well. 

3 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

This comparison does not work.  We are not playing a kid's sport being paid millions of dollars and are celebrities.  Please stop using the everyday folks to dudes/gals that play professional sports and make tons of money and have all the fame.

Bad comparison.  

Man, it stops being a kids sport at once they're playing on AAU teams, getting scouted in HS, getting NIL money, and getting millions for non-guaranteed careers in the minors.

Let's not even bring up the gun-toting agents in Latin America, Cuban players risking everything to get here (Abreu ate a fucking passport), and semi-predatory loan companies that take advantage of young minor leaguers.

12 minutes ago, Quin said:

Man, it stops being a kids sport at once they're playing on AAU teams, getting scouted in HS, getting NIL money, and getting millions for non-guaranteed careers in the minors.

Let's not even bring up the gun-toting agents in Latin America, Cuban players risking everything to get here (Abreu ate a fucking passport), and semi-predatory loan companies that take advantage of young minor leaguers.

You still cannot compare your most everyday folks who work 40+ hours a week to a dude playing baseball for the Chicago White Sox/Dodgers 

3 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

You still cannot compare your most everyday folks who work 40+ hours a week to a dude playing baseball for the Chicago White Sox/Dodgers 

Why?  Because they make a lot of money? 

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The reason why there's a losing culture is because players like Kopech, Robert, Benintendi, Moncada, Eloy etc didn't play up to their abilities.  Move on from all of them and never look back.  

lol here is the reason for the losing culture:

23 minutes ago, T R U said:

What are you talking about, the majority of people on this earth give up when things get hard or aren't going well. 

MAJORITY

I would disagree with that assessment 

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why?  Because they make a lot of money? 

That's one of the reasons BUT let's not get away from what the original post said that i commented upon.  

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

lol here is the reason for the losing culture:

The KING of losers 

8 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

That's one of the reasons BUT let's not get away from what the original post said that i commented upon.  

So what is that magical line that people become different at?

8 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

The KING of losers 

He makes the Chicago Bears look like the Dodgers. Really King s%*#. Imagine blaming the employees and not the fucking owner. I guess when your paycheck depends on something you'll say anything.

26 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He makes the Chicago Bears look like the Dodgers. Really King s%*#. Imagine blaming the employees and not the fucking owner. I guess when your paycheck depends on something you'll say anything.

It's weird that the franchise keeps finding problem players.... it's almost like the players aren't the real problem.

I always get a kick out of when the “playing a kids game” line is dropped.

We acknowledge that it’s a business, while doing our own roster and payroll breakdowns.
We buy expensive clothing with players names on the back.
We get upset at players when they don’t meet our expectations.
We take it all very seriously.

But when it’s convenient to the argument, we simply minimize it to a silly children’s game.

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So what is that magical line that people become different at?

I gave you my opinion.  I'm not a psychologist nor have the time to devote to researching human behavior.  

The following is the statement that I stated does not work as a comparison between your everyday people and dudes/gals playing professional sports

if you're at a job or with a company that has zero direction, poor leadership, poor training and poor infrastructure...when you roll up to your cube each day, are you going "all-in" for that company each day, giving it max effort all 40 hours a week? For most...probably not?

To me, it is a privilege to play sports, enjoy the fame,  and earn millions of dollars.  In my opinion you cannot compare effort of a individual as described in the highlighted above to what Kopech just said about his time with the white sox.  Those comparisons are apples to cauliflower. 

6 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

I gave you my opinion.  I'm not a psychologist nor have the time to devote to researching human behavior.  

The following is the statement that I stated does not work as a comparison between your everyday people and dudes/gals playing professional sports

if you're at a job or with a company that has zero direction, poor leadership, poor training and poor infrastructure...when you roll up to your cube each day, are you going "all-in" for that company each day, giving it max effort all 40 hours a week? For most...probably not?

To me, it is a privilege to play sports, enjoy the fame,  and earn millions of dollars.  In my opinion you cannot compare effort of a individual as described in the highlighted above to what Kopech just said about his time with the white sox.  Those comparisons are apples to cauliflower. 

And in my opinion, this is an inaccurate view of human nature.  Money and fame don't change who you are at your core.  Plenty of people only have a certain level of tolerance for BS.  That doesn't change because I add an extra zero to your paycheck, or you get your face on a baseball card.  Depression, anger, frustration etc aren't exclusive to just lower economic realms.

6 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

I gave you my opinion.  I'm not a psychologist nor have the time to devote to researching human behavior.  

The following is the statement that I stated does not work as a comparison between your everyday people and dudes/gals playing professional sports

if you're at a job or with a company that has zero direction, poor leadership, poor training and poor infrastructure...when you roll up to your cube each day, are you going "all-in" for that company each day, giving it max effort all 40 hours a week? For most...probably not?

To me, it is a privilege to play sports, enjoy the fame,  and earn millions of dollars.  In my opinion you cannot compare effort of a individual as described in the highlighted above to what Kopech just said about his time with the white sox.  Those comparisons are apples to cauliflower. 

Ok, let's flip this:

You make your entire career earnings - in Kopech's case, that was not looking like a lot - by age 35 or so. You've got no practical real world skills. You've been ripped to shreds by fans and analysts while you struggled mentally and physically. He was amped and excited when he came up.

Hell, people ripped Burger to shreds for years for his Achilles injuries because he like, enjoyed video games. It's a miracle he turned it around.

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And in my opinion, this is an inaccurate view of human nature.  Money and fame don't change who you are at your core.  Plenty of people only have a certain level of tolerance for BS.  That doesn't change because I add an extra zero to your paycheck, or you get your face on a baseball card.  Depression, anger, frustration etc aren't exclusive to just lower economic realms.

100% agree on the bolded

I disagree on other aspects.

I chimed in after @Look at Ray Ray Run posted the following.......I 100%agree with what Ray said.  A guy playing professional sports who has accomplished nothing going through the motions.  

"I was in a position to where I hate to say I was going through the motions. You know you’re not playing for anything other than your own career, and when you don’t want to play a selfish game because it’s not a selfish game, it makes it really hard."

The head on Kopech's shoulders is not one I'd want to trade places with. For a professional athlete who has proven nothing to go through the motions is fascinating, and also a huge red flag. If I was a GM, I'd never sign a guy who admits such a thing to any contract.