WestEddy Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 36 minutes ago, bmags said: we definitely need a surprise guy offensively which just...have we had an offensive prospect for 25 years that significantly outperformed their pedigree? Not talking about in the sense of Adam Engel being a major leaguer is a huge accomplishment, but like how a 3rd round pick like Michael Harris can zoom up from the 3rd round, Steven Kwan in the 5th, or a Cody Bellinger in the 4th. 3 different teams. It happens to most teams, it has not happened to the white sox. Maybe someone can come up with someone i missed, but all of our offensive talent for 2 decades have been players that we had to trade for after proving themselves or were very established. no bringing up semien. Brent Morel was a guy I wanted to be more than he turned out to be. 3rd rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne030 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) 22 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Brent Morel was a guy I wanted to be more than he turned out to be. 3rd rounder. Our Lord and Savior, Chris Getz, was a solid 4th round pick and also wasted 6th round pick on him three years prior. There's naked photo's somewhere..... Edited May 13 by champagne030 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 37 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Brent Morel was a guy I wanted to be more than he turned out to be. 3rd rounder. Had so much hope for him to build off of 2011. The first casualty of the Crede void. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 It's like a collection of people nobody wants to invite to party's all found a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 13 hours ago, Quin said: Man, I joined this board 16 years ago looking for a place to talk about Sox prospects. I love rooting for them to succeed. The last rebuild - and even guys from the current rebuild like Colson Montgomery - should be a giant flashing red light. Colson was the anointed one as late as last spring. And let's face it, unless you're going back in time and re-writing history, the industry was way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher on the previous rebuild than it was on this one. That's kind of a function of losing 120, which is to a large extent a function of being in a much worse starting spot. Both rebuilds had 3 major trades at their outset. In the last rebuild, all 3 looked great right off the bat. Then add Abreu, Anderson and Robert, and it was easy to see a good young team coming together. This time, the first 2 trades (Cease and Fedde) looked less than impressive at the time (and still do). The third looked like a homerun but it didn't have the sizzle that made headlines (no top 10 prospects or even a top 3 RedSox prospect). But the farm is organically better (i.e. this farm has more pre-trade talent than the last one did) and, for better or worse, that's what will drive this rebuild. Anyway, a lot of turnarounds aren't noticed until they've already happened. There are usually a few signs if one looks hard enough....and there are a few surrounding this bunch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 2 hours ago, WestEddy said: You mean, like, the chairs and the rolodex are forcing bad decisions? A few months ago, I probably would have taken this bait. I just don't care enough to even muster up a fake argument at this point. You win. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 32 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: It's like a collection of people nobody wants to invite to party's all found a home. Maybe eventually you will get the hint and move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 33 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: It's like a collection of people nobody wants to invite to party's all found a home. You know what, it doesn’t seem like this site is for you 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Maybe eventually you will get the hint and move on. There is no longer a hint 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 31 minutes ago, Tony said: A few months ago, I probably would have taken this bait. I just don't care enough to even muster up a fake argument at this point. You win. No bait. Really, when was the last "house-cleaning"? The David Wilder stuff? Maybe at the beginning or end of Larry Himes' run? Schueller begat Kenny, who begat Hahn. I know y'all want to say that Getz is a continuation of the old guard, but he's "cleaned house". It's not like they're changing the entire top tier every 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 15 minutes ago, WestEddy said: No bait. Really, when was the last "house-cleaning"? The David Wilder stuff? Maybe at the beginning or end of Larry Himes' run? Schueller begat Kenny, who begat Hahn. I know y'all want to say that Getz is a continuation of the old guard, but he's "cleaned house". It's not like they're changing the entire top tier every 5 years. 1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) 3 hours ago, bmags said: we definitely need a surprise guy offensively which just...have we had an offensive prospect for 25 years that significantly outperformed their pedigree? Not talking about in the sense of Adam Engel being a major leaguer is a huge accomplishment, but like how a 3rd round pick like Michael Harris can zoom up from the 3rd round, Steven Kwan in the 5th, or a Cody Bellinger in the 4th. 3 different teams. It happens to most teams, it has not happened to the white sox. Maybe someone can come up with someone i missed, but all of our offensive talent for 2 decades have been players that we had to trade for after proving themselves or were very established. no bringing up semien. Your top 5 position players drafted by the White Sox since 2010: 1. Marcus Semien, 2011 R6, 45.5 bWar 2. Tim Anderson, 2012 R1, 15.3 bWar 3. – tie- Adam Engel, 2013 R19, 3.3 bWar 4. – tie - Alex Call, 2016 R3, 3.3 bWar 5. Nick Madrigal, 2019 R1, 3.2 bWar On the pitching side, they've drafted 2 aces, 2 near-aces (Rodon, Bassitt) , and a couple of relievers. But it's not like the Guardians have done much better: it's pretty much Lindor and Kwan (and a lot of good trades and international signings). Edited May 13 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: 1980 So then, to answer Tony's original question " At what point do you start to wonder if it's not about the people they are hiring, but the business might simply not really know what they're doing? " - I'm going to say certainly after the 1st house cleaning in 45 years. And I'm going to give the current regime longer than just under 2 years hitting the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 15 minutes ago, WestEddy said: So then, to answer Tony's original question " At what point do you start to wonder if it's not about the people they are hiring, but the business might simply not really know what they're doing? " - I'm going to say certainly after the 1st house cleaning in 45 years. And I'm going to give the current regime longer than just under 2 years hitting the ground. The first house cleaning in 45 years? Good lord man. I hope you don't believe this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: 1980 Even then, Roland Hemond wasn't pushed out until the mid 1980s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The first house cleaning in 45 years? Good lord man. I hope you don't believe this stuff. Then if you didn't really mean 1980, it's generally not helpful to answer the question with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 20 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Then if you didn't really mean 1980, it's generally not helpful to answer the question with it. This was not even the most complete changes of the past 45 years, so no, I can't take you seriously here. They do this WE'VE CHANGED thing about once a decade. Hell, Jerry has ran off Hall of Famers in the past. The Hemond/Harrelson/Himes/Schuler era was a civil war. Guys like Dombrowski and Evans being shoved out too. This is a blip on the radar compared to those days. But back to the actual central theme, until Jerry leaves, this is just more people telling Jerry what he wants to hear getting promoted, telling the same stories we have already heard. I have even posted links to Rick Hahn and Chris Getz saying the exact same things that you are here telling us today. Again, the last real house cleaning was 1980, not 2023. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: This was not even the most complete changes of the past 45 years, so no, I can't take you seriously here. They do this WE'VE CHANGED thing about once a decade. Hell, Jerry has ran off Hall of Famers in the past. The Hemond/Harrelson/Himes/Schuler era was a civil war. Guys like Dombrowski and Evans being shoved out too. This is a blip on the radar compared to those days. But back to the actual central theme, until Jerry leaves, this is just more people telling Jerry what he wants to hear getting promoted, telling the same stories we have already heard. I have even posted links to Rick Hahn and Chris Getz saying the exact same things that you are here telling us today. Again, the last real house cleaning was 1980, not 2023. I'll give Getz this: His coup will never, ever match Hawk's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne030 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 2 hours ago, WestEddy said: So then, to answer Tony's original question " At what point do you start to wonder if it's not about the people they are hiring, but the business might simply not really know what they're doing? " - I'm going to say certainly after the 1st house cleaning in 45 years. And I'm going to give the current regime longer than just under 2 years hitting the ground. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 29 minutes ago, champagne030 said: Obligatory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) 7 hours ago, WestEddy said: I thought all the big brains here have declared that fans will not buy tickets to watch any players short of a 9 figure signing. They even laugh at the notion. Show me that elko bump you were talking about. Looked it up: 2 Sundays ago they had 19k+. Last Sunday with elko they had 16.8k. Edited May 13 by Look at Ray Ray Run 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 5 hours ago, WestEddy said: No bait. Really, when was the last "house-cleaning"? The David Wilder stuff? Maybe at the beginning or end of Larry Himes' run? Schueller begat Kenny, who begat Hahn. I know y'all want to say that Getz is a continuation of the old guard, but he's "cleaned house". It's not like they're changing the entire top tier every 5 years. Want to say? Getz came from the old guard. The next true housecleaning will be when a new owner gets rid of everyone from the Jerry regime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 11 hours ago, Falstaff said: It happens every year in MLB with pitching reclamation projects producing results. Bannister has shown he can scout and then get the most out of guys like Fedde, Smith, and Vasil. The ballclub needs to expand this to hitting prospects. In 2026 If JR does decide to spend and get a free agent go after Josh Naylor if available. There's a dude who would fall off a cliff the moment he signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 59 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Show me that elko bump you were talking about. Looked it up: 2 Sundays ago they had 19k+. Last Sunday with elko they had 16.8k. Does anyone except their mothers really want to watch the Marlins these days??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 38 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: There's a dude who would fall off a cliff the moment he signed. Same with Kwan with the White Sox...he would immediate turn into Charlie Tilson or something. (Definitely not Lance Johnson/1-Dog Reborn.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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