Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe, and other Black Sox members removed from MLB permanently banned list

[WestEddy]

5 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

True and as I was told by some of the players including Moose Swokron, Santo was told to stop drinking, that it would only cause more issues with his diabetes but he did not. 

He had good numbers but to me he was borderline Hall of Fame at best.

Alcoholism is a disease. It's not as simple as "just don't drink", but I do understand. 

[Jake]

Selig told Pete he'd remove the ban if Pete would admit his guilt, stop gambling, and not do gambling endorsements. That was too much to ask for Pete. Manfred made a similar offer.

I suspect that Hall of Fame voters will pass on letting him in and I won't lose sleep over it. Major ethical lapses that affect the integrity of the actual baseball games should get the absolute highest scrutiny.

[soulfly]

What the Astros did was far worse than what Rose did as far as integrity of the game goes.  Did those players get punished at all?  Nope.  So lets not pretend MLB has any serious standards. 

[Jake]

Astros cheating was pretty bad although it was more of a matter of degree than kind. Manfred's response on that was notoriously weak as is (arguably) his handling of the Rose situation under political pressure. This is Rob "just a hunk of metal" Manfred, after all.

Not sure how Hall voters will look at it. I suspect the veterans committees will take a dim view of gambling and steroids for the time being.

[Milkman delivers]

7 hours ago, Jake said:

Selig told Pete he'd remove the ban if Pete would admit his guilt, stop gambling, and not do gambling endorsements. That was too much to ask for Pete. Manfred made a similar offer.

I suspect that Hall of Fame voters will pass on letting him in and I won't lose sleep over it. Major ethical lapses that affect the integrity of the actual baseball games should get the absolute highest scrutiny.

I mean, I feel like the “highest scrutiny” is covered by making sure you’re six feet under the dirt before they let you in. I’d say that’s enough of a deterrent for current players that are HOF-level.

[caulfield12]

"Let’s be clear: MLB’s willingness to accommodate Trump on Rose is about more than typical political pandering. The commissioner's office is surely worried about the administration’s sway over (1) the league’s antitrust exemption and (2) the hundreds of work visas granted to Venezuelan and Cuban ballplayers each year. There are no indications that a direct quid pro quo has taken place, but Trump’s tendency toward aggressive and, at times, punitive immigration policy has likely contributed to MLB’s hyper-careful approach to the current president."

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/pete-rose-reinstated-by-mlb-eligible-for-the-hall-of-fame-how-we-got-here-and-what-it-means-015535778.html

 

Dan Wetzel espn

"Still, there are owners and commissioners in the Hall who worked for decades to stop baseball from racial integration. That's a far more widespread impact on the integrity of the game than betting on your team to beat the Dodgers.

Yes, sports wagering is always a concern and was once a major taboo. But public opinion and business realities changed. There are sportsbooks inside MLB stadiums these days, including, for a stretch, with Rose's old team in Cincinnati.

History is history. The game is the game. The museum is the museum. Tell the story, the whole story, with all the best players and best teams and best tales, no matter how colorful, criminal or regrettable.

America can handle it. Our real national pastime is scandal, after all."

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/42931802/wander-franco-trial-reset-june-2-key-witnesses-missing

Edited May 14 by caulfield12

[bmags]

I think the bans were good, the shadow ban of bonds I struggle with.

That braves exec getting banned for life for the intl thing is still hilariously over the top to me.

[The Mighty Mite]

16 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

True and as I was told by some of the players including Moose Swokron, Santo was told to stop drinking, that it would only cause more issues with his diabetes but he did not. 

He had good numbers but to me he was borderline Hall of Fame at best.

It’s Bill Skowron.

[Quin]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

It’s Bill Skowron.

His nickname was Moose though?

[The Mighty Mite]

18 minutes ago, Quin said:

His nickname was Moose though?

 

18 minutes ago, Quin said:

His nickname was Moose though?

Yep.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

It’s Bill Skowron.

The last name was a typo on my part and yes I know "Moose" was his nickname. Sat next to him upstairs in one of the suites at a game. Nice guy, had a lot of stories. Absolutely went off on Santo, had to laugh at what he was calling him.  

[The Mighty Mite]

17 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The last name was a typo on my part and yes I know "Moose" was his nickname. Sat next to him upstairs in one of the suites at a game. Nice guy, had a lot of stories. Absolutely went off on Santo, had to laugh at what he was calling him.  

I figured you made a typo. 
As far as Santo, though I felt sorry for what he went through losing his legs, what ever Skowron called him I would agree 100%, Skowron was a class act, can’t say the same about Santo, he was a complete asshat.

Edited May 14 by The Mighty Mite

[Falstaff]

I was at Moose Skowron's wake and the White Sox and Yankee organizations are first class, much respect and love.

My thoughts on lifting the ban on Pete Rose cheapens the whole aura of the HoF. 

 

 

[caulfield12]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2025-05-14/pete-rose-baseball-hall-of-fame-barry-bonds

[JoeC]

My thoughts, all inconsequential:

1. A "lifetime" ban should end when the player dies, since his "lifetime" is over.

2. I think that even betting on your own team to win should be grounds for a lifetime ban, unless you were betting the same amount on each game. If you're betting on your team to win one game and not another, that cracks the door open for impropriety. I wouldn't believe it if anyone told me that Pete Rose, the dude who went balls-out and steamrolled catchers in All-Star games, ever "threw" any games, but it's incredibly stupid to open the door to any sort of possibility for people to believe so.

3. I'm glad baseball is at least recognizing the hypocrisy of accepting money from gambling companies while banning players who gambled on the game. I still don't personally agree with the idea of leagues partnering with gambling providers, but at least they're moving toward consistency of stance.

[Colome's Hat]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

My thoughts, all inconsequential:

1. A "lifetime" ban should end when the player dies, since his "lifetime" is over.

2. I think that even betting on your own team to win should be grounds for a lifetime ban, unless you were betting the same amount on each game. If you're betting on your team to win one game and not another, that cracks the door open for impropriety. I wouldn't believe it if anyone told me that Pete Rose, the dude who went balls-out and steamrolled catchers in All-Star games, ever "threw" any games, but it's incredibly stupid to open the door to any sort of possibility for people to believe so.

3. I'm glad baseball is at least recognizing the hypocrisy of accepting money from gambling companies while banning players who gambled on the game. I still don't personally agree with the idea of leagues partnering with gambling providers, but at least they're moving toward consistency of stance.

In football, players aren't getting lifetime bans but they are getting season long bans.  Meanwhile, you have gambling companies sponsoring teams.  Ivan Toney, who was banned for most of last year for betting, wore a gambling sponsor on his Brentford shirt.  I honestly don't think there should be a lifetime ban for the first offense.  It's an addiction.  I think a two to three year long ban plus the right kind of addiction counseling to prevent it from happening again would be a good solution.  This is every bit an addiction issue in the same way drugs are.

Edited May 15 by Colome's Hat

[pcq]

On 5/14/2025 at 9:59 AM, bmags said:

I think the bans were good, the shadow ban of bonds I struggle with.

That braves exec getting banned for life for the intl thing is still hilariously over the top to me.

From what I have read Joe and Pete deserve to be banned. Guilty as charged. 

[Colome's Hat]

44 minutes ago, pcq said:

From what I have read Joe and Pete deserve to be banned. Guilty as charged. 

I think Joe Jackson has a far better case than Rose.  They were getting fucked over by their owners.  THey also couldnt' get out of the agreement due to the power of the mob.  I can't morally side with the billionaire bosses over the workers.  Also, the Reds had a better record that year.  There has been a lot of revisionist history over 1919.

Edited May 15 by Colome's Hat