5/18 Gamethread...

[kgrittenburg]

5 hours ago, PaleAleSox said:

Two of PCA's hits were bullshit wind assisted garbage. It pisses me off so much. 

the constant whining on this board is laughable, everybody knew this team would be terrible, so what's the point of crying when it happens, wasted tears

[T R U]

29 minutes ago, kgrittenburg said:

the constant whining on this board is laughable, everybody knew this team would be terrible, so what's the point of crying when it happens, wasted tears

Because this is a white Sox discussion board and the only thing to discuss is how awful this team is. What’s so hard to understand about that?

[Lip Man 1]

Sox Machine perfectly sums up the White Sox where fundamentals and baseball intelligence are unknown words:

When the White Sox try to apply pressure, it often looks a lot like the first inning Sunday, when Chase Meidroth was thrown out by 20 feet while trying to turn Joshua Palacios' soft, shallow lineout into a sacrifice fly.

When the White Sox have pressure applied to them, it often looks like the sixth inning, in which a couple of defensive gaffes turned a manageable problem into an out-and-out crisis.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Look I'm not going to talk about Getz being good to a pissed off bunch of Sox fans who just lost 3 straight to the Cubs. That's a losing battle. That's a losing battle even trying to do it without losing 3 games to the Cubs. Not going to die on that hill.

I will say judging baseball talent is not easy when picking young players that are supposed to be the best in the world in the draft.

So how are you supposed to judge talent with any accuracy when choosing from some of the worst but once promising talent over 25 years old ? You try picking from a 200+ player pool of guys who have been up and down from AAA to MLB a few times with 1 or 2 options left and that's who you're stocking your MLB team and AAA team with . Or some ML vets down on their luck or recovering from bad seasons or injury getting signed for  $1-3M .

How many times were there people screaming about Vargas who didn't even know about Jeral Perez  ? Now Vargas is hitting and playing a decent 3rd base. That trade is looking better now that 2 of the 3 in that trade are performing better. The Crochet trade looking great so far. Cease trade so far not so good but I don't think he was getting very good offers. These are things most fans don't consider. 

I still think the worst thing Getz did was not trading Robert after 2023. You see another person saying that now around here. He is just copying me because I said it 1st . I'm just trying to look at everything as much as possible. Reinsdorf hired Getz didn't he. If it wasn't Getz it wouldn't have been anyone any better. It would have been another eager young man 1st time GM working under the same restrictions. There's a reason why the Sox have never drafted and developed a star player from the Dominican Republic when it develops the most MLB players than any country besides the US and his name is Jerry Reinsdorf.

Anyone who talks about Getz more than Reinsdorf is not looking at the big picture .

 

That’s fine. You can think Getz is doing a good job and I can think opposite. We don’t have to agree.

[caulfield12]

33 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

That’s fine. You can think Getz is doing a good job and I can think opposite. We don’t have to agree.

This is the crux of the argument...

How good could anyone do, realistically, under JR...in this specific situation?

Let's assume of the sake of argument that no long-term contracts (over 2 years) are allowed, and no spending over $5 million per season on "new" players aka FA's.

 

 

Rockies LF (Beck/Veen), CF (Doyle), RF (Moniak/Veen), 3B (McMahon slightly over Vargas, you could argue either one, it's close to a dead heat), Tovar far and away over anyone the White Sox have at SS (he recently came back from injury, so doesn't have the counting numbers yet), 2B should be Meidroth/Sosa, 1B both teams are pretty much equally terrible, no clear winner, C White Sox Thaiss/Quero over Stallings/Goodman and DH (Hunter Goodman, he's also a catcher but more of a DH)

Colorado is arguably the offense of the WORST team in MLB history by the end of this year, breaking the 2024 White Sox record...but they have an advantage at all three outfield positions, 3B let's be charitable and call it a draw, SS clearly Tovar (cornerstone of their team), 2B Meidroth/Sosa, 1B draw, C goes to White Sox and DH to Hunter Goodman.   That's 5 to Colorado, 2 to the White Sox and 2 draws/NC.

[zisk]

You guys are silly. I on the other hand, didn't watch a single inning this week end. The

Cubs are good, but they need another starter to win it all. We need about 7 more good 

players. Go cut the grass and drink 2-3 Falstaffs. Next year we'll be a little better.

[WookiesOnRitalin]

34 minutes ago, zisk said:

You guys are silly. I on the other hand, didn't watch a single inning this week end. The

Cubs are good, but they need another starter to win it all. We need about 7 more good 

players. Go cut the grass and drink 2-3 Falstaffs. Next year we'll be a little better.

 

I think this ignores a couple key points. This team's two "best" hitters are currently batting .184. Imagine, if they were batting roughly .250? If the Sox were getting any production from the middle of their lineup and from players who have produced previously, the Sox would be fairing much better this year. 

 

For whatever reason, Vaughn and Robert have just turned to trash. How many teams are letting two full time starters bat below .200 before pulling them? For the Sox, they do not have a choice. They have to keep playing them and hope something changes. Right now, their value and contributions are at an all time low. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, zisk said:

You guys are silly. I on the other hand, didn't watch a single inning this week end. The

Cubs are good, but they need another starter to win it all. We need about 7 more good 

players. Go cut the grass and drink 2-3 Falstaffs. Next year we'll be a little better.

No it won't since JR won't be spending anything due to the probable labor impasse and the owners upcoming lockout. 

If anything he'll cut payroll again. 

[nrockway]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

As opposed to needing to read everything about those who are annoyed,  and then telling them how annoyed you are that they are annoyed. 

anyone ever tell ya you're quite impolite? i think you should chill out.

[caulfield12]

29. White Sox (previously: 29)
There aren’t many players more important to the short-and-long-term health of the White Sox than Miguel Vargas, who came over from the Dodgers in the Michael Kopech trade last year. He struggled mightily last year, but he’s starting to come around, including hitting two homers at Wrigley Field on Friday. He is ready to move on from his 2024 struggles: “I don’t remember anything about last year,” Vargas jokingly told reporters. “Sorry.”

 

MLB.com power rankings

[caulfield12]

Divisional Power Rankings   (according to mlb.com rankings 5/18)

1.  NL West  Dodgers 1, Padres 4, SFG 8, DBacks 13, Rockies 30

2.  AL Central  Tigers 2, Twins 9, Cleveland 11, KC 15, White Sox 29

3.  AL East  Mets 3, Phillies 6, Brewers 17, Washington 24, Miami 27

4.  AL West  Seattle 10, Texas 14, Houston 16, A's 19, LAA 25

5.  NL Central Cubs 7, Cards 12, Cincy 20, Brewers 21, Pirates 28

6.  AL East  NY Yankees 5, Boston 18, Toronto 22, TB 23, Baltimore 26

[WhiteSox2023]

15 hours ago, fathom said:

The amount of kids with the stupid ass PCA haircut is ridiculous 

He definitely looks like a massive chode but it will probably work for him and he will get some endorsements because of it, especially now that he is panning out as expected.

But no one can argue with a .900+ OPS.  If we had one of those we’d be acting like he was the greatest young player in baseball.  What are the chances Colson Montgomery ever has an OPS that high?  🤣

Edited May 19 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

15 hours ago, PaleAleSox said:

What else am I supposed to do? The Sox season is over so I’m rooting for the Cubs to be failures. Also, and I don’t mean this in a derogatory way or anything, but you don’t live here. It makes it less annoying for you when they are good. 

Perhaps not get so angry about the inevitable?  The Cubs will probably sweep the Sox again in late July at The Rate.  Good teams usually beat bad teams.  But you do you.

I live in Chicago as well and it really doesn’t matter — everyone knows that the Cubs are the talk of the town and the Sox are a joke both locally and nationally.  Making fun of the Sox and Sox fans is like kicking a dead horse here.

Edited May 19 by WhiteSox2023

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, nrockway said:

anyone ever tell ya you're quite impolite? i think you should chill out.

I didn't go out and term a swath of the board as "annoying" so some self-awareness might be in store.

[Kyyle23]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

29. White Sox (previously: 29)
There aren’t many players more important to the short-and-long-term health of the White Sox than Miguel Vargas, who came over from the Dodgers in the Michael Kopech trade last year. He struggled mightily last year, but he’s starting to come around, including hitting two homers at Wrigley Field on Friday. He is ready to move on from his 2024 struggles: “I don’t remember anything about last year,” Vargas jokingly told reporters. “Sorry.”

 

MLB.com power rankings

I don’t agree at all that Vargas is some lynchpin for the short and long term viability of this team.  Chances are that when the Sox finally get good,  he will just be a guy that was here when they were bad

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I don’t agree at all that Vargas is some lynchpin for the short and long term viability of this team.  Chances are that when the Sox finally get good,  he will just be a guy that was here when they were bad

Once you get past Ramos...the next options are Jeral Perez and Bonemer.

Still too early to determine if he can continue to push up to an 800 ops or not.

[Kyyle23]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Once you get past Ramos...the next options are Jeral Perez and Bonemer.

Still too early to determine if he can continue to push up to an 800 ops or not.

Ok

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

That’s fine. You can think Getz is doing a good job and I can think opposite. We don’t have to agree.

Why do you keep thinking I'm saying  he's doing a good job? I just made a post that said I'm not going to die on a hill saying he's doing a good job. He's not. He can't. It's not really possible for him to do a good job.  I don't know how that message is being lost somehow . But by limiting the amount of money he spends JR is probably limiting the damage he can do . We saw how when Hahn went for mid level cost free agents it turned disastrous most of the time . Old vets who have had better careers than Tauchman or Slater like JD Martinez cost more but apparently no one was willing to meet his price at 36 yrs old. Should the Sox have signed him ?

He's done some good things that's all I can say. He's surrounded himself with people he thinks can help with player development and infrastructure. Hes trying to empower the people in the organization so he's not the sole decision maker. No GM can be an expert in all the areas that a GM deals with. He may not be an expert in any area but he's been trying to assemble people who are. That doesn't mean they can polish many turds to make them turn around their careers. You can't make a living counting on that to happen especially when JR doesn't really want it to happen . The rebuild fizzled at just the right time for JR. He could now cut the budget put money into building up the area around the UC and estate plan  selling of the Sox and avoid paying hardly any (1) guaranteed contracts during the looming labor strike. That's probably a main reason why sustained success under Reinsdorf was never possible in his 80s, or ever for that matter but multiplied when he got older. It was too close to the end of his life to invest big money and too close to another strike. He didn't want all that debt to be his legacy to his son's. He wants the sale of the Sox to be as lucrative as possible for them.

If the Vargas turnaround is real how many times have we heard that if the Dodgers couldn't do how can the Sox ? It might just be a Vaughn type hot streak but at least it's encouraging that Biomechanics and Fuller are part of a solution even if it's just a hot streak and pitchers find another way to get him out. Adjust readjust that separates the good from the bad hitters.

Edited May 19 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

No it won't since JR won't be spending anything due to the probable labor impasse and the owners upcoming lockout. 

If anything he'll cut payroll again. 

He probably will but once Robert is gone so is $20M next year and whatever remains of his $15M this year.

It's looking more and more like Robert won't be gone by Memorial Day Mr. Nightingale . At the rate he's going he's turning into another Vaughn but there's no way in hell JR would pick up that $20M option. Robert's going to be a salary dump. Maybe next year the same will apply to Benintendi. He'll be the last guaranteed contract on the books that isn't near minimum wage . Does anyone out there think Jerry hasn't been planning for the strike for a few years ?  JR must be slipping . He actually let Hahn sign him through 2027 but he didn't make that mistake after Benintendi.

Edited May 19 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[WhiteSox2023]

The Cubs are dumping our old friend to call up 3B Matt Shaw…

 

[zisk]

Vargas and Cannon for Shaw. Move Ramos to LF. Ramos is a good athlete. 

Edited May 19 by zisk
add

[Kyyle23]

I mean if we are making up trades then I’m trading Vaughn for Ohtani.  He is a BETTER athlete 

[PaleAleSox]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Perhaps not get so angry about the inevitable?  The Cubs will probably sweep the Sox again in late July at The Rate.  Good teams usually beat bad teams.  But you do you.

I live in Chicago as well and it really doesn’t matter — everyone knows that the Cubs are the talk of the town and the Sox are a joke both locally and nationally.  Making fun of the Sox and Sox fans is like kicking a dead horse here.

I’m not real angry. I’m sports angry. Also part of the fun is wanting to see a team fail as much as you want to see your team succeed. 

[T R U]

10 hours ago, WookiesOnRitalin said:

I think this ignores a couple key points. This team's two "best" hitters are currently batting .184. Imagine, if they were batting roughly .250? If the Sox were getting any production from the middle of their lineup and from players who have produced previously, the Sox would be fairing much better this year. 

For whatever reason, Vaughn and Robert have just turned to trash. How many teams are letting two full time starters bat below .200 before pulling them? For the Sox, they do not have a choice. They have to keep playing them and hope something changes. Right now, their value and contributions are at an all time low. 

Andrew Vaughn has never been good. He's in his 5th year and has a career bWAR of -0.2, he's just not a good major leaguer. 

What has happened to Luis Robert sucks, however, he fell right in line with the rest of our heralded players like Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, etc.

At this point, the blame has to go to the organization and the operation were running here unless you just believe all these super talented and high end prospects all just lost their ability to play over the same window.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

30 minutes ago, zisk said:

Vargas and Cannon for Shaw. Move Ramos to LF. Ramos is a good athlete. 

Eww 2 MLB players for 1 minor leaguer ? Aren't you supposed to get more minor league players for MLB players ?

You must consider the recent hot streaks of Vargas and Cannon to be mirages and the minors league hot streak of Shaw to mean he's better than both Sox players combined.