Falstaff Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) This WAR stat has me a bit confused from current 2025 stats in Baseball-Reference. Edited July 12 by Falstaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Falstaff said: Team Player Value--Pitchers Share & Export Modify, Export & Share Table Get as Excel Workbook Get table as CSV (for Excel) Get Link to Table About Sharing Tools Video: SR Sharing Tools & How-to Video: Stats Table Tips & Tricks Data Usage Terms Glossary Tm IP G GS R RA9 RA9opp RA9def RA9role RA9extras PPFp RA9avg RAA WAA gmLI WAAadj WAR ▼ RAR waaWL% 162WL% Salary Philadelphia Phillies 836.1 379 94 369 3.97 4.51 -0.27 0.02 0.08 103.6 5.05 96 11.3 1.13 -1.6 17.6 179 .530 .503 $132,238,096 Kansas City Royals 844.0 402 95 351 3.74 4.50 0.07 0.01 0.07 99.3 4.48 58 7.0 1.21 -0.4 14.6 146 .517 .503 $63,083,333 Minnesota Twins 825.0 416 94 404 4.41 4.51 -0.28 0.00 0.07 104.4 5.07 50 6.3 1.15 0.0 14.1 136 .515 .503 $58,060,000 Houston Astros 833.2 381 94 353 3.81 4.43 0.11 0.01 0.06 101.5 4.45 48 6.2 1.11 -0.3 13.9 135 .516 .504 $59,350,000 San Diego Padres 832.0 426 94 370 4.00 4.57 -0.01 0.00 0.07 100.9 4.68 58 6.5 1.33 -0.7 13.8 141 .515 .503 $68,900,000 Pittsburgh Pirates 836.2 384 95 366 3.94 4.67 0.36 0.01 0.11 102.5 4.54 51 6.2 1.20 -0.9 13.3 134 .516 .503 $37,958,500 Cincinnati Reds 839.2 416 95 405 4.34 4.47 0.08 0.00 0.07 109.7 4.91 48 6.0 1.02 -1.4 12.7 131 .515 .503 $60,040,833 New York Yankees 831.2 399 94 381 4.12 4.57 0.19 0.00 0.08 100.9 4.49 23 3.4 1.11 -1.2 10.0 110 .508 .502 $91,203,333 Chicago White Sox 824.2 390 95 418 4.56 4.56 -0.12 -0.01 0.06 103.4 4.89 19 2.8 1.09 -0.9 9.7 105 .507 .501 $6,830,000 Los Angeles Angels 835.0 413 94 470 5.07 4.61 -0.43 0.00 0.09 104.8 5.38 18 2.5 1.34 -1.1 9.4 105 .506 .502 $64,050,000 Milwaukee Brewers 835.1 420 94 370 3.99 4.33 0.23 -0.01 0.07 98.2 4.09 5 1.7 1.19 -0.6 9.1 87 .504 .501 $41,848,000 New York Mets 843.0 400 95 377 4.02 4.51 0.19 -0.01 0.09 93.6 4.11 3 1.3 1.31 -0.6 8.7 86 .503 .501 $98,050,000 Detroit Tigers 845.1 389 95 372 3.96 4.38 0.27 0.00 0.06 99.5 4.15 6 1.4 1.07 -1.0 8.4 94 .504 .501 $62,555,000 San Francisco Giants 839.2 391 95 375 4.02 4.40 0.24 0.01 0.08 96.1 4.09 2 0.9 1.33 -0.5 8.4 85 .502 .502 $60,025,000 Arizona Diamondbacks 845.2 386 95 477 5.08 4.63 -0.26 0.01 0.09 102.7 5.12 -1 0.7 1.13 -0.5 8.2 83 .502 .501 $87,606,667 Texas Rangers 842.0 391 95 340 3.63 4.50 0.47 0.00 0.09 92.2 3.79 4 1.4 1.32 -1.5 7.9 91 .504 .500 $94,235,000 Tampa Bay Rays 846.2 394 95 383 4.07 4.52 0.33 0.01 0.07 97.8 4.18 -1 0.6 1.15 -1.2 7.5 87 .502 .500 $15,186,667 Atlanta Braves 823.2 387 93 375 4.10 4.52 0.55 0.01 0.10 100.5 4.11 -4 0.6 1.13 -1.1 7.3 78 .502 .501 $73,025,000 Toronto Blue Jays 836.2 415 94 413 4.44 4.57 0.40 -0.01 0.10 104.0 4.43 -12 -0.7 1.12 -1.0 6.3 75 .498 .501 $119,670,953 Cleveland Guardians 824.1 407 93 391 4.27 4.45 0.25 0.00 0.07 100.8 4.30 -8 -0.6 1.15 -1.2 6.1 78 .499 .500 $24,750,000 Miami Marlins 827.0 392 93 462 5.03 4.59 0.01 -0.03 0.09 104.2 4.83 -23 -1.5 1.17 -0.8 5.6 59 .496 .501 $24,170,000 St. Louis Cardinals 842.2 378 95 416 4.44 4.47 0.25 0.01 0.09 99.4 4.29 -19 -1.6 1.23 -1.0 5.4 65 .496 .500 $72,165,000 Boston Red Sox 860.2 411 96 429 4.49 4.47 0.40 -0.01 0.12 101.7 4.26 -33 -2.4 1.28 -0.9 4.9 56 .494 .500 $71,966,666 Seattle Mariners 852.0 406 94 408 4.31 4.46 0.17 0.00 0.18 90.6 4.05 -36 -3.1 1.28 -0.7 4.3 52 .492 .500 $42,545,000 Chicago Cubs 837.2 405 94 390 4.19 4.49 0.44 0.00 0.09 92.9 3.85 -36 -2.9 1.07 -1.2 3.9 47 .493 .500 $61,825,000 Baltimore Orioles 819.1 422 93 466 5.12 4.49 -0.26 -0.01 0.06 95.8 4.60 -58 -4.4 1.09 -0.3 3.1 27 .490 .500 $79,975,000 Colorado Rockies 822.0 409 94 581 6.36 4.68 -0.54 -0.02 0.07 112.1 5.90 -47 -4.2 1.02 -1.3 2.3 35 .490 .499 $54,475,000 Washington Nationals 827.0 415 94 505 5.50 4.62 -0.25 0.01 0.05 98.2 4.84 -65 -5.9 .96 -0.3 1.7 17 .486 .498 $33,035,060 Los Angeles Dodgers 846.1 438 95 446 4.74 4.55 0.38 -0.02 0.09 96.2 4.06 -69 -6.1 1.14 -0.3 1.7 15 .486 .499 $183,405,477 Athletics 853.0 401 96 545 5.75 4.60 -0.23 -0.01 0.09 103.0 5.05 -78 -7.3 1.05 -1.4 -0.6 11 .482 .498 $42,300,000 25108.2 12063 2832 12408 4.45 4.52 0.09 0.00 0.08 100.3 4.53 0 26.1 1.16 -26.1 239.0 2548 .502 .501 $1,984,528,585 Should of clarified fWAR but this is exactly why many don't consider bWAR to be a very good gage of pitching performance. To be fair though, I'll say they should be considered probably more in the 21-23 range than 25th, but think theyll continue to fall. If you think they're the 9th best pitching staff in baseball though I can't really help. Entire staff has the 4th worst fip and the worst xfip in baseball. Edited July 12 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Should of clarified fWAR but this is exactly why many don't consider bWAR to be a very good gage of pitching performance. To be fair though, I'll say they should be considered probably more in the 21-23 range than 25th. If you think they're the 9th best pitching staff in baseball though I can't really help. I never said what the Sox ranking was, just posted Baseball-Reference stats. I know they have a long way to go on both sides, pitching & hitting. It is nice to see some progress with the youngsters and other pick ups. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 6 hours ago, Falstaff said: I never said what the Sox ranking was, just posted Baseball-Reference stats. I know they have a long way to go on both sides, pitching & hitting. It is nice to see some progress with the youngsters and other pick ups. I think the stat-heads look more at bWAR for pitching because fWAR is more based on expected production than bWAR is. It's amazing they're 9th in bWAR paying 1/10th the salary that some teams behind them are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 After Misiorowski got named an All-Star, Houser deserves it if more AL pitchers drop. Legit great signing from Getz. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne030 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 (edited) 5 hours ago, WestEddy said: I think the stat-heads look more at bWAR for pitching because fWAR is more based on expected production than bWAR is. It's amazing they're 9th in bWAR paying 1/10th the salary that some teams behind them are. No they don't look more at bWAR, most know that's, by far, the lesser of the two when compared to fWAR (for pitching). I would use RA9-WAR if using a single stat, but that's not a good idea either. xFIP is good too, but there's no single 'stat' that tells you how good somebody is. Edited July 13 by champagne030 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Three years at 100 losses is fairly impressive. Not easy to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 (edited) 16 hours ago, WestEddy said: I think the stat-heads look more at bWAR for pitching because fWAR is more based on expected production than bWAR is. It's amazing they're 9th in bWAR paying 1/10th the salary that some teams behind them are. People who work with statistics and modeling look for the stat that is the most predictive and "forecast-able." fWAR has a stronger correlation to future success/outcomes than bWAR by quite a bit, and is by far a better stat for assessing true-talent performance. We want to know how good the pitching staff has been and how good they'll be going forward, not how lucky they've been. The Sox have no where near the 9th best staff in baseball no matter how you look at it, which should further support the above perspective. Edited July 13 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2025&month=0&season1=2025&ind=0&team=0%2Cts 25th in pitching fWAR 29th in offense at -0.4 fWAR https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/runs-per-game 0.03 runs per game from being last in the majors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 51 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2025&month=0&season1=2025&ind=0&team=0%2Cts 25th in pitching fWAR 29th in offense at -0.4 fWAR https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/runs-per-game 0.03 runs per game from being last in the majors First in fBOMBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Sun-Times article touching upon Houser's off-season changes: White Sox right-hander Adrian Houser's 'commitment' to himself paying dividends - Chicago Sun-Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 hours ago, WestEddy said: Sun-Times article touching upon Houser's off-season changes: White Sox right-hander Adrian Houser's 'commitment' to himself paying dividends - Chicago Sun-Times I can't help but notice he's 31 and just now talking about making a commitment to learning something new and changing. Seems a bit ironic with the recent history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/12/2025 at 5:46 PM, champagne030 said: No they don't look more at bWAR, most know that's, by far, the lesser of the two when compared to fWAR (for pitching). I would use RA9-WAR if using a single stat, but that's not a good idea either. xFIP is good too, but there's no single 'stat' that tells you how good somebody is. With MLB changing the balls every year so much it's hard to trust in some of the DIPS stats as much, including xFIP. I like to look at the entire package of a pitcher including the run values Fangraphs assigns for each pitch. If a guy is + run value on every pitch in his arsenal he's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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