kitekrazy Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Maybe the Brewers are a tough organization in doing things their way. Oh you don't want to go to the pen? Fine we'll trade you. Who won the trade? Both. The Sox needed a place holder arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 10 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Of course. Whether Getz was qualified, or "deserved" his promotion has been talked to death. Development was not getting the best out of what was acquired. I found it affirming that as soon as he became GM, he made a slew of changes to scouting and development. That told me he wanted those changes all along, and was using his authority to enact them. They're still a long way off, and a lot of assets are still going to fall through the cracks. I find it amazing to look at the history of White Sox first rounders, and during the period between the drafting of Alex Fernandez (1990) and Chris Sale (2010), there was a vast wasteland of opportunity. Aaron Rowand put up 12 bWAR for us, and Gordon Beckham put up about 7 bWAR. That's it. His qualification is dealing with Reinsdorf. No seasoned or experienced GM would ever take that job. Jerry also probably didn't want to hear how flawed he is doing interviews. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Is it now if Andrew Vaughn is doing what he is doing in Milwaukee this quickly? Is "what" now? Rockway pointed out that Vaughn has had 100 PA runs like this before. I stated that he needed a change-of-scenery kick-in-the-pants to focus him. Vaughn's success doesn't change my opinion on development from 2017-2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 4 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: Maybe the Brewers are a tough organization in doing things their way. Oh you don't want to go to the pen? Fine we'll trade you. Who won the trade? Both. The Sox needed a place holder arm. Civale asked for the trade, Milwaukee didn't "punish" him by trading him. I think all of the White Sox, Brewers, Civale and Vaughn all won. Everybody got what they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Is "what" now? Rockway pointed out that Vaughn has had 100 PA runs like this before. I stated that he needed a change-of-scenery kick-in-the-pants to focus him. Vaughn's success doesn't change my opinion on development from 2017-2020. I am more concerned about his body of work in 2024 and 2025, but sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: His qualification is dealing with Reinsdorf. No seasoned or experienced GM would ever take that job. Jerry also probably didn't want to hear how flawed he is doing interviews. Placating the owner and carving out the space one needs to do one's job is an important skill. So perhaps you're saying that Getz was uniquely qualified to take a job that would have had few applicants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Civale asked for the trade, Milwaukee didn't "punish" him by trading him. I think all of the White Sox, Brewers, Civale and Vaughn all won. Everybody got what they wanted. I guess we got innings out of Civale but really wish he was moved for anything 2 weeks ago. Could just claim guys to fill innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am more concerned about his body of work in 2024 and 2025, but sure. Getz started with a team basically assembled from parking lot tryouts, and 2 years later, has a team playing somewhere between a 68-80 win pace over 162. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I guess we got innings out of Civale but really wish he was moved for anything 2 weeks ago. Could just claim guys to fill innings. If you wanted to do one or two wins better than last year, they could have just kept Jesse Scholtens and Jared Shuster to eat innings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: It's funny because there are also threads about Colson, who has an even smaller sample size here. that's true, but many thought he was a bust and not ready for the majors. I suspect he won't keep up this home run hitting pace but you might expect him to walk more like he did in the minors. His batting average looks about right, but the OBP isn't really indicative of what he did in MILB. I think with Colson, he showed he can actually hit a major league fastball which I thought was a big concern and what would've made him bust. I'm not looking at the statcast stuff, but maybe Vaughn is actually hitting breaking stuff now...ok I looked, his WOBA on breaking pitches is .347 this season compared to .237 last season, .263 in 2023, .264 in 2022, .222 in 2021. I'm convincing myself that he actually turned a corner lol. Also, why can't we just hype up our guys??? Baseball is fun! Too much fun, I have stuff I should be doing besides talking about baseball online. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, JoeC said: ...or sometimes we need to acknowledge that what's going to work on Montgomery, Robert, Frank Thomas, or whomever else isn't necessarily going to work on Andrew Vaughn, Luis Robert, etc. This gets back to a discussion that @Look at Ray Ray Run and I had about a cohesive drafting / talent acquisition / talent development philosophy and pipeline. If you're acquiring an unfinished player, you better damn well know how to develop that player. Hell, even Frank Thomas needed special coaching (Hriniak) to unlock his full potential. Sure, there's some blame on the players (maybe Vaughn really did need the kick in the pants that the Sox were giving up on him), but it's also on the organization to maximize their assets in any way they can. 100%. This exists throughout all walks of life and work too. You can have an incredibly talented team, but their skill sets simply don't align so you can't get the most out of any of those skills. Your GM is supposed to be the facilitator and maximize the team structure in a way that they can get the most out of their assets skill sets and strengths. If you have a head of pitching development that excels at maxing spin, velo and release, but your lead scouts and minor league pitching coaches strengths were maximizing endurance, release repeatability and command, on the surface you'd think you have it all covered but the reality is you have people in both spots delivering a message that the other can't maximize. In baseball, if you are going to find an edge it'll be a niche edge that you need to master and then you need to commit to it. It doesn't mean you throw everything else by the wayside, but it means all you care about being is average/in-line with others in other areas while you master your niche. The Sox didn't actually have a problem mastering a niche historically, there problem was being average in the areas they didn't invest in. With Getz' White Sox, I think that niche is still a big unknown while he's focused on bringing other areas up to average. As I've said before though, nobody ever won anything consistently by merely copying what others were doing. You need an edge, and I have yet to see it. The step back pitching took this year is a huge kick in the dick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 21 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Getz started with a team basically assembled from parking lot tryouts, and 2 years later, has a team playing somewhere between a 68-80 win pace over 162. Half the starting lineup is still holdovers from the Rick Hahn / Kenny Williams era. Robert, Sosa, Montgomery, Quero. Edited August 13 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 33 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Getz started with a team basically assembled from parking lot tryouts, and 2 years later, has a team playing somewhere between a 68-80 win pace over 162. And Andrew Vaughn was one of those players. I know it isn't the focus you want right now, but it does matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 13 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Half the starting lineup is still holdovers from the Rick Hahn / Kenny Williams era. Robert, Sosa, Montgomery, Quero. You know, most of the guys he was just taking credit for, while denying Vaughn 3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Half the starting lineup is still holdovers from the Rick Hahn / Kenny Williams era. Robert, Sosa, Montgomery, Quero. Just so I'm keeping score correctly...Getz gets blame for the developmental failures, but Hahn gets credit for the developmental successes because he's the one that acquired them? How dare you make me write a post defending Getz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 26 minutes ago, nrockway said: that's true, but many thought he was a bust and not ready for the majors. I suspect he won't keep up this home run hitting pace but you might expect him to walk more like he did in the minors. His batting average looks about right, but the OBP isn't really indicative of what he did in MILB. I think with Colson, he showed he can actually hit a major league fastball which I thought was a big concern and what would've made him bust. I'm not looking at the statcast stuff, but maybe Vaughn is actually hitting breaking stuff now...ok I looked, his WOBA on breaking pitches is .347 this season compared to .237 last season, .263 in 2023, .264 in 2022, .222 in 2021. I'm convincing myself that he actually turned a corner lol. Also, why can't we just hype up our guys??? Baseball is fun! Too much fun, I have stuff I should be doing besides talking about baseball online. Hype them up all you want, but then don't come crap on someone else for sample size, when the someone you are hyping has a smaller sample size and not expect to hear about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 minute ago, Snopek said: Just so I'm keeping score correctly...Getz gets blame for the developmental failures, but Hahn gets credit for the developmental successes because he's the one that acquired them? How dare you make me write a post defending Getz The rule of thumb is they belong to the previous regime, unless they are good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Just missed another homer. His swing decisions seems so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Getz started with a team basically assembled from parking lot tryouts, and 2 years later, has a team playing somewhere between a 68-80 win pace over 162. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I'm not sure what this means, but they're around a .420 w-l % since about May 1, last I checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoUEvenShift Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) Just saw the Brewers play the Cubs 5 games next week. If I was still in Chicago I'd go to a game in a Vaughn Sox jersey just to piss off Cubs fans. Edited August 13 by DoUEvenShift 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Let me translate. If you leave out the bad parts, they are somewhere between awful and mediocre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: I guess we got innings out of Civale but really wish he was moved for anything 2 weeks ago. Could just claim guys to fill innings. That’s really the only way the trade made sense for the Sox — if Getz dealt Civale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 59 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I'm not sure what this means, but they're around a .420 w-l % since about May 1, last I checked. So where are we getting 80 wins from exactly? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So where are we getting 80 wins from exactly? The Sox are playing 200 games this season. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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