No indicators Sox are building around speed

[Lyle Moooton]

11 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

It's a Caulfield thread. It lacks forethought and any semblance of cohesion. Just try to avoid it. I visualize these posts as if they are wrapped in big spools of yellow "Caution" tape.

It could be interchangeable with a handful of other “contributors”

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

It's a Caulfield thread. It lacks forethought and any semblance of cohesion. Just try to avoid it. I visualize these posts as if they are wrapped in big spools of yellow "Caution" tape.

This Sox team lacks forethought and any semblance of cohesion. Just try to avoid them until 2028.  While you're at it, envision future rosters wrapped in big spools of yellow "caution Chris Getz at work here" tape.

[Lyle Moooton]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What in the f*** are you even arguing at this point?

He spends his entire time trying to convince everyone how smart he is. But he’s stupid. 

[WestEddy]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

"Chris Getz's commitment to improving the White Sox defense did not need a market forces explanation to be understood. Defensive specialists are less expensive to acquire than their offensive counterparts, and the Sox signaled they were dialing back their payroll from the outset of the offseason. Their positional group of the last few years was littered with unfulfilled Faustian bargains to enable an offense that was supposed to bash their way out of trouble. This tension even manifested itself at the individual level, like Tim Anderson trying to make up for being error-prone with his range/athleticism, or Yasmani Grandal's pitch-framing countering his blocking and other clunky elements of his operation. If the White Sox cannot be significantly better in the standings in 2024, focusing on glove work could at least make them less of a tough hang.

It made sense, even if it's not team slogan material.

But within minutes of trying to dial back the focus on his GM Meetings comment of "I don't like our team," the new White Sox chief baseball decision-maker provided a memorable snapshot for explaining his defensive-minded ethos.

"In the offseason, when I began conversations with potential free agents and agents of pitchers, there was hesitancy to come to the White Sox because of the defense, so that led me to really be proactive in improving that," Getz said. "I wanted to be an attractive place for pitchers to want to pitch here."

It rang a loud bell if only because this is certainly a complaint I had heard before on the beat, when pitchers who thought they'd be on a contending team in 2022 were finishing the year with a 34-year-old AJ Pollock pressed into center field duty behind them. Beyond that, defensive issues would quickly create an identity crisis for the Sox going forward."

 

And where are we now exactly...1 1/2 seasons later???

 

https://soxmachine.com/2024/02/chris-getz-white-sox-defense

Getz has been targeting guys with at least stable defensive reputations, and the defense is arguably better than in 2023. I get it, you're grasping at straws in an effort to be right about anything. Maybe you're arguing that "team speed" is the single most important aspect of team building, and trying to acquire players who can play defense well is folly?

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Thanks for that unrelated tangent. You didn't really counter anything I said. The Sox are building on the premise of guys who make good swing decisions and get on base. Cleveland's great 90's teams didn't build around speed. They built around guys who made good swing decisions and got on base. The White Sox have a clear plan in building a team going forward, which was the point of this thread, right?

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&type=8&season=2025&month=0&team=0&pos=ss&qual=50&pagenum=2&pageitems=30

Clear plan is Chase Meidroth at SS, where he's 21st out of 48 players...with the two very worst in the majors being Amaya and Capra.

Along with Vargas, we now have two "average" players...although many are now starting to question whether Vargas even sticks at third.

Great....just six more to go, Assuming you are penciling Quero and Teel in at catcher.

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Getz has been targeting guys with at least stable defensive reputations, and the defense is arguably better than in 2023. I get it, you're grasping at straws in an effort to be right about anything. Maybe you're arguing that "team speed" is the single most important aspect of team building, and trying to acquire players who can play defense well is folly?

How many great outfield defenders don't run well...or at least at league average speed?

Btw, how did Rojas go from near Gold Glove level in Seattle at third base to whatever he is now?

 

Edited June 24 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&type=8&season=2025&month=0&team=0&pos=ss&qual=50&pagenum=2&pageitems=30

Clear plan is Chase Meidroth at SS, where he's 21st out of 48 players...with the two very worst in the majors being Amaya and Capra.

Along with Vargas, we now have two "average" players...although many are now starting to question whether Vargas even sticks at third.

Great....just six more to go, Assuming you are penciling Quero and Teel in at catcher.

Yes, settling on players who can hold down a position, one at a time, is something that happens during a rebuild. You get stuck on these rankings. You don't need to have the best shortstop evah. You need somebody who is at least average, hopefully, better than average. That's what Meidroth is. Vargas started off there and might be better suited for 1B. If he can rake at his current .850+ since 4/23, that works. 

Are you actually arguing that the White Sox should cut both Teel and Quero? That would be silly. 

[Snopek]

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

This Sox team lacks forethought and any semblance of cohesion. Just try to avoid them until 2028.  While you're at it, envision future rosters wrapped in big spools of yellow "caution Chris Getz at work here" tape.

This sounds like something from a Jay Leno tonight show monologue 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yes, settling on players who can hold down a position, one at a time, is something that happens during a rebuild. You get stuck on these rankings. You don't need to have the best shortstop evah. You need somebody who is at least average, hopefully, better than average. That's what Meidroth is. Vargas started off there and might be better suited for 1B. If he can rake at his current .850+ since 4/23, that works. 

Are you actually arguing that the White Sox should cut both Teel and Quero? That would be silly. 

No...although some power out of them was counted on in future projected lineups.

If you eliminate bad months...almost any player can look like an All Star.

Mike Tauchman...if he hadn't missed 40-45 games for instance.  But then his numbers would never hold up with everyday playing time.  

If we can eliminate one month...the Padres would still be in the WC race and Tatis Jr. would be at a mid 900s ops instead of just 820ish.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

How many great outfield defenders don't run well...or at least at league average speed?

Btw, how did Rojas go from near Gold Glove level in Seattle at third base to whatever he is now?

 

What is the sound of one hand clapping? LOL. 

I would imagine the difference in playing time between Rojas' time in Seattle and Chicago magnifies a few miscues on the White Sox and seriously dings his ratings. 

As far as the first question, you seem hung up on the acquisition of a couple of cheap OFs who have offered way more value than what they're being paid. They're one year plug-ins. The OFs they're targeting in trade and upper draft choices seem more well-rounded as hitters and defenders. 

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

1) No...although some power out of them was counted on in future projected lineups.

2) If you eliminate bad months...almost any player can look like an All Star.

3) Mike Tauchman...if he hadn't missed 40-45 games for instance.  But then his numbers would never hold up with everyday playing time.  

4) If we can eliminate one month...the Padres would still be in the WC race and Tatis Jr. would be at a mid 900s ops instead of just 820ish.

1) That's what happens when rookies are promoted and have to get used to big league pitching. The power will come as they develop into major leaguers. 
2) There is a definite line for Vargas' production, and that is a key mechanical change he made to his stance. I suppose you can ignore what the rest of the league is talking about if that's what you need to make some vapid argument. 
3) You don't know this. 
4) The Padres are in the WC race. There are ebbs and flows to a season. That's a bit different from a player making a major change, seeing immediate results that are lasting for 2 solid months. 

[MiddleCoastBias]

3 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They're very clearly targeting players who make good swing decisions and don’t chase. They know that they need power. Power costs money though. 

This question probably belongs in the Draft forum but does this mentality mean we might seriously be looking to draft Jace?

He has the power and ability to read the zone well, which makes me think Getz would like him. But he also has a huge swing and miss tendency which screams anti-Getz-guy to me. I just can't get a read on what we might think of him, curious on your thoughts.

 

[champagne030]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re actually arguing a guy who is currently 35% above league average as a hitter sucks?

I guess that you think Gavin Sheets is awesome.

[Chicago White Sox]

51 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

I guess that you think Gavin Sheets is awesome.

Yup, either you suck or you are awesome…there is no in between.  What a great message board this place has become.

[DirtySox]

16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, either you suck or you are awesome…there is no in between.  What a great message board this place has become.

The main board has become a cesspool. I open threads and scan which posters have replied and from there I can tell if there is any discourse worth my time.

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

The main board has become a cesspool. I open threads and scan which posters have replied and from there I can tell if there is any discourse worth my time.

Isn’t there an Ignore option?  It seems to me that you actually want to read posts from these posters whom apparently annoy you.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

The main board has become a cesspool. I open threads and scan which posters have replied and from there I can tell if there is any discourse worth my time.

Yup, I get that everyone is pissed off about most things White Sox and rightfully so, but it’s immensely frustrating when we can’t have any back & forth dialogue before the “everything sucks” boo birds come out.  If you have zero hope or are unwilling to entertain it, then take a break and go find a better use of your time.

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, I get that everyone is pissed off about most things White Sox and rightfully so, but it’s immensely frustrating when we can’t have any back & forth dialogue before the “everything sucks” boo birds come out.  If you have zero hope or are unwilling to entertain it, then take a break and go find a better use of your time.

Look, there are multiple people literally mocking someone for daring to have an opinion other than what they have, including you and some of others looking for decorum for their opinions.  When that tone is set, that is how the discussion will go.  You can't then get offended when someone else gives it back.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look, there are multiple people literally mocking someone for daring to have an opinion other than what they have, including you and some of others looking for decorum for their opinions.  When that tone is set, that is how the discussion will go.  You can't then get offended when someone else gives it back.

What in the world are you talking about?  Who am I mocking for “daring to have an opinion”?  The guy who said a dude hitting 35% above league average sucks?  If that’s your example, then no, that’s an actual objective opinion to be had and should be mocked relentlessly.

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What in the world are you talking about?  Who am I mocking for “daring to have an opinion”?  The guy who said a dude hitting 35% above league average sucks?  If that’s your example, then no, that’s an actual objective opinion to be had and should be mocked relentlessly.

When one person decides that decorum doesn't apply to them, it applies to no one.  THIS is what you are seeing on Soxtalk.  You were JUST talking about someone being unwilling to entertain other opinions, and yet here this is.  Both sides are so deeply dug in and substituting mocking each other for opinions and discussion, this is why this page is the way that it is.  I have been trying to root out the most ridiculous name calling, but it doesn't do much good when any discussion pretty much turns into this type of cesspool.  This isn't even to pick ON just you, but you happened to be the guy who brought it up.

[Chicago White Sox]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

When one person decides that decorum doesn't apply to them, it applies to no one.  THIS is what you are seeing on Soxtalk.  You were JUST talking about someone being unwilling to entertain other opinions, and yet here this is.  Both sides are so deeply dug in and substituting mocking each other for opinions and discussion, this is why this page is the way that it is.  I have been trying to root out the most ridiculous name calling, but it doesn't do much good when any discussion pretty much turns into this type of cesspool.  This isn't even to pick ON just you, but you happened to be the guy who brought it up.

Explain how the “opinion” that a dude hitting 35% above league average sucks is rationale?   Why do I have to entertain something so ridiculous?  I have debated with posters on whether we should have signed in Tauchman in the first place, which is a fair conversation to have given the state of the org.  But to say a guy “sucks” who by all objective measures does not suck is not a credible opinion and should not be treated as one.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Explain how the “opinion” that a dude hitting 35% above league average sucks is rationale?   Why do I have to entertain something so ridiculous?  I have debated with posters on whether we should have signed in Tauchman in the first place, which is a fair conversation to have given the state of the org.  But to say a guy “sucks” who by all objective measures does not suck is not a credible opinion and should not be treated as one.

This line right here.  Stop and think about what this implies.  If I think what you are saying is "so ridiculous", I now have permission to derail any actual conversation for name calling.  Who decides what that standard is?  Who decides when it is acceptable?  If I deem something  "so ridiculous", or how ever you want to deem it, I now have permission to do EXACTLY what you are upset about, in that you would now be "unwilling to entertain it", as you had previously said, when it comes to an opinion other than your own.  You want to know why Soxtalk is here?  It is a decent amount of people deeming other people's opinions "so ridiculous" they can then attack them as they see fit, while being "unwilling to entertain it" when it comes to anyone who takes the opposite side of an argument.

[kitekrazy]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

This Sox team lacks forethought and any semblance of cohesion. Just try to avoid them until 2028.  While you're at it, envision future rosters wrapped in big spools of yellow "caution Chris Getz at work here" tape.

What will happen in 2028?  Under 100 losses?  

Failing miserably at position players and trading future Cy Young pitchers, will eventually run out of the latter.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This line right here.  Stop and think about what this implies.  If I think what you are saying is "so ridiculous", I now have permission to derail any actual conversation for name calling.  Who decides what that standard is?  Who decides when it is acceptable?  If I deem something  "so ridiculous", or how ever you want to deem it, I now have permission to do EXACTLY what you are upset about, in that you would now be "unwilling to entertain it", as you had previously said, when it comes to an opinion other than your own.  You want to know why Soxtalk is here?  It is a decent amount of people deeming other people's opinions "so ridiculous" they can then attack them as they see fit, while being "unwilling to entertain it" when it comes to anyone who takes the opposite side of an argument.

Lol…who did I attack?  Me telling a poster there is a difference between awesome and sucking is somehow name calling?  Is this a serious post?  And no offense, you ridicule and insult posters all the time.  You and West Eddy in particular have gone back and worth relentlessly, making personal attacks against one another.  I’m not really sure who you are grandstanding for here.  The quality of this board has taken a hit in recent years and the post I cited was a perfect example of that.  That should be expected to some extent given how bad the team has been as of late, but you trying to say my post is somehow contributing towards that drop in quality is quite frankly absurd and hypocritical.

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…who did I attack?  Me telling a poster there is a difference between awesome and sucking is somehow name calling?  Is this a serious post?  And no offense, you ridicule and insult posters all the time.  You and West Eddy in particular have gone back and worth relentlessly, making personal attacks against one another.  I’m not really sure who you are grandstanding for here.  The quality of this board has taken a hit in recent years and the post I cited was a perfect example of that.  That should be expected to some extent given how bad the team has been as of late, but you trying to say my post is somehow contributing towards that drop in quality is quite frankly absurd and hypocritical.

I never said I, or anyone else, was innocent, but I am not the one complaining about a lack of decorum or quality discussions either.  That's the entire point.  Adding to the problem doesn't fix the problem.  If you really want the sort of discussions you are asking for, mocking a dude with obvious issues isn't the right path.