Rick Hahn - Rosters To Rings Podcast

[Tony]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but very possible I missed it. 

 

Listened to this yesterday and while nothing was earth shattering, found certain elements to be interesting. 

Two biggest takeaways:

- Rick telling Jerry after 2022 and then again in 2023 that he basically had to fire him, he didn't deserve another shot at a rebuild. 

- How involved Jerry still is and the process of Rick having to provide updates each step of the way. Specifically with the Quintana deal to the Cubs, how Jerry really wanted him to go to the Brewers instead of the Cubs, because of the optics involved. Which speaks to the personality of the GM and how important it is to have a spine and not be a "yes man" 

You obviously have to take Rick on his word with this stuff, and everyone may have a different stomach for that, but none the less, found the conversation interesting. 

[WestEddy]

 

10 minutes ago, Tony said:

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but very possible I missed it. 

 

Listened to this yesterday and while nothing was earth shattering, found certain elements to be interesting. 

Two biggest takeaways:

- Rick telling Jerry after 2022 and then again in 2023 that he basically had to fire him, he didn't deserve another shot at a rebuild. 

- How involved Jerry still is and the process of Rick having to provide updates each step of the way. Specifically with the Quintana deal to the Cubs, how Jerry really wanted him to go to the Brewers instead of the Cubs, because of the optics involved. Which speaks to the personality of the GM and how important it is to have a spine and not be a "yes man" 

You obviously have to take Rick on his word with this stuff, and everyone may have a different stomach for that, but none the less, found the conversation interesting. 

You mean.... Fred?

Yeah, Rick telling JR to fire him was probably the biggest takeaway. 

Interesting insight on how Cashman and Dombrowski are just straightforward dudes, instead of wasting his time just info-gathering. 

[Tony]

13 hours ago, WestEddy said:

 

You mean.... Fred?

Yeah, Rick telling JR to fire him was probably the biggest takeaway. 

Interesting insight on how Cashman and Dombrowski are just straightforward dudes, instead of wasting his time just info-gathering. 

Yes, thought that part was interesting too, especially with the Nightengale report a last week that GM's were getting frustrated with Getz. Not saying it's 100% true as Nightengale has a questionable track record, and I'm not even taking a shot at Getz...I think it speaks to another part of the GM game that often gets overlooked and that's relationship building with other counterparts. Rick talked about almost sending Sale* to Washington, Rizzo not being overly pleased they didn't land him...but then getting the deal done for Eaton in Washington because they already laid a lot of the groundwork previously

[Quin]

55 minutes ago, Tony said:

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but very possible I missed it. 

 

Listened to this yesterday and while nothing was earth shattering, found certain elements to be interesting. 

Two biggest takeaways:

- Rick telling Jerry after 2022 and then again in 2023 that he basically had to fire him, he didn't deserve another shot at a rebuild. 

- How involved Jerry still is and the process of Rick having to provide updates each step of the way. Specifically with the Quintana deal to the Cubs, how Jerry really wanted him to go to the Brewers instead of the Cubs, because of the optics involved. Which speaks to the personality of the GM and how important it is to have a spine and not be a "yes man" 

You obviously have to take Rick on his word with this stuff, and everyone may have a different stomach for that, but none the less, found the conversation interesting. 

God this sounds nightmarish.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

God this sounds nightmarish.

In another thread a few days ago someone posted something along the lines of 'JR isn't that involved' which I immediately corrected.

This should settle that posters fantasy.

JR is involved in literally EVERYTHING regarding the franchise. Always has been, always will be until the day he leaves.

Again the Athletic story by Rosenthal this past September should be required reading for every White Sox fan left. 

[southsider2k5]

10 hours ago, Tony said:

Yes, thought that part was interesting too, especially with the Nightengale report a last week that GM's were getting frustrated with Getz. Not saying it's 100% true as Nightengale has a questionable track record, and I'm not even taking a shot at Getz...I think it speaks to another part of the GM game that often gets overlooked and that's relationship building with other counterparts. Rick talked about almost sending Crochet to Washington, Rizzo not being overly pleased they didn't land him...but then getting the deal done for Eaton in Washington because they already laid a lot of the groundwork previously

It was Sale, not Crochet, but yeah.

[Tony]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It was Sale, not Crochet, but yeah.

Correct, brain fart there. 

[nrockway]

personally I don't understand why he's doing media appearances and why he's on TV now. this is the least charismatic man I've ever heard of. I have the urge to give someone a wedgie just by opening this thread.

[Lip Man 1]

18 minutes ago, nrockway said:

personally I don't understand why he's doing media appearances and why he's on TV now. this is the least charismatic man I've ever heard of. I have the urge to give someone a wedgie just by opening this thread.

being unemployed for a few years may have something to do with that, he's auditioning for something somewhere. 

[WestEddy]

27 minutes ago, nrockway said:

personally I don't understand why he's doing media appearances and why he's on TV now. this is the least charismatic man I've ever heard of. I have the urge to give someone a wedgie just by opening this thread.

It was a podcast. Him and Jon Daniels talking about the GM job, how they got theirs, and the duties involved, how the position has morphed just over their time in the game. I found it interesting. Hahn was in baseball about 23 years and has a ton of knowledge. 

[kitekrazy]

15 hours ago, Tony said:

Yes, thought that part was interesting too, especially with the Nightengale report a last week that GM's were getting frustrated with Getz. Not saying it's 100% true as Nightengale has a questionable track record, and I'm not even taking a shot at Getz...I think it speaks to another part of the GM game that often gets overlooked and that's relationship building with other counterparts. Rick talked about almost sending Sale* to Washington, Rizzo not being overly pleased they didn't land him...but then getting the deal done for Eaton in Washington because they already laid a lot of the groundwork previously

Imagine GMs getting frustrated for not getting what they want.  Maybe they were hoping for the 2024 trade deadline Getz.

Media rarely makes sense these days

[Tony]

18 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Imagine GMs getting frustrated for not getting what they want.  Maybe they were hoping for the 2024 trade deadline Getz.

Media rarely makes sense these days

I think there is a little more nuance there than you are giving credit for. As three former GM's discussed on the podcast, there were relationships built over time with counterparts, and you understood their mission and what they were trying to accomplish. Hahn talked about GM's he enjoyed dealing, based on how they conducted their dealings and what the ultimate purpose was, and all three hosts discussed frustrations with dealing with GM's that seemed to be more interested in fact-finding missions and information gathering than ultimately wanting to close a deal. 

Nightengale offered very little detail in his statement behind why teams may have been getting frustrated with Getz, but I would put good money on the fact Nightengale isn't just making up that anecdote. It would be very safe to assume 2-3 GM's told him that, and he felt confident enough to put that out there, given what he had heard. Again, doesn't get into why they were frustrated with him, and as I said earlier, I'm not using it as a shot against Getz at this point, none of us have enough information to go off of on this specific topic to form an informed opinion or take a passionate stance on the topic. 

But I personally don't believe when it relates to Robert/Getz and the trade deadline, GM's were getting frustrated with Getz simply because of the high ask. That happens every day in GM conversations. And if a team won't move off those asks, then they end up keeping the player, pretty simple. I take it as more related to what was discussed on this podcast. Mixed-messages sent by a GM to another team, a willingness to deal then all the sudden pulling back the offer, or spending a lot of time on something that continues not to make any significant progress....could be a lot of different things, and I think a lot of those skills get sharpened over time. Some people are very natural in negotiations, but as a former player like Getz, trade conversations with other GM's, GM's that have been in their roles for a decade+, that has to be an acquired skill that is learned over time.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

I think there is a little more nuance there than you are giving credit for. As three former GM's discussed on the podcast, there were relationships built over time with counterparts, and you understood their mission and what they were trying to accomplish. Hahn talked about GM's he enjoyed dealing, based on how they conducted their dealings and what the ultimate purpose was, and all three hosts discussed frustrations with dealing with GM's that seemed to be more interested in fact-finding missions and information gathering than ultimately wanting to close a deal. 

Nightengale offered very little detail in his statement behind why teams may have been getting frustrated with Getz, but I would put good money on the fact Nightengale isn't just making up that anecdote. It would be very safe to assume 2-3 GM's told him that, and he felt confident enough to put that out there, given what he had heard. Again, doesn't get into why they were frustrated with him, and as I said earlier, I'm not using it as a shot against Getz at this point, none of us have enough information to go off of on this specific topic to form an informed opinion or take a passionate stance on the topic. 

But I personally don't believe when it relates to Robert/Getz and the trade deadline, GM's were getting frustrated with Getz simply because of the high ask. That happens every day in GM conversations. And if a team won't move off those asks, then they end up keeping the player, pretty simple. I take it as more related to what was discussed on this podcast. Mixed-messages sent by a GM to another team, a willingness to deal then all the sudden pulling back the offer, or spending a lot of time on something that continues not to make any significant progress....could be a lot of different things, and I think a lot of those skills get sharpened over time. Some people are very natural in negotiations, but as a former player like Getz, trade conversations with other GM's, GM's that have been in their roles for a decade+, that has to be an acquired skill that is learned over time.

Kite krazy doesn’t offer nuance much anymore.  Too busy doing his Eeyore routine 

[southsider2k5]

Putting a few different pieces together, I wonder if with the change from Williams and Hahn, to a much less experienced Getz, and then adding in what we know from other threads about Jerry and Tony's continued involvement in things, if the problem is that Getz is out there trying to get things done, but getting told no by Jerry/Tony, and then having to crawl back to the people he was negotiating with to tell them it fell apart.

Who knows if it is true or not, but when you are getting threads about MUCH more experienced guys being kept on a leash, and then threads about GMs getting frustrated dealing with Getz, those things would fit together well.

[caulfield12]

40 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Putting a few different pieces together, I wonder if with the change from Williams and Hahn, to a much less experienced Getz, and then adding in what we know from other threads about Jerry and Tony's continued involvement in things, if the problem is that Getz is out there trying to get things done, but getting told no by Jerry/Tony, and then having to crawl back to the people he was negotiating with to tell them it fell apart.

Who knows if it is true or not, but when you are getting threads about MUCH more experienced guys being kept on a leash, and then threads about GMs getting frustrated dealing with Getz, those things would fit together well.

But JR has always cared more about the bottom line than bringing back any type of better prospect return...you would think that dump him at all costs would have been Getz's walking orders.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

But JR has always cared more about the bottom line than bringing back any type of better prospect return...you would think that dump him at all costs would have been Getz's walking orders.

And taking that to the next logical step with Luis Robert still on the roster....

Getz tried to move Robert thinking that he could include money, and Jerry said no.  Be pretty frustrating for a GM thinking he had a deal done, no?

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

And taking that to the next logical step with Luis Robert still on the roster....

Getz tried to move Robert thinking that he could include money, and Jerry said no.  Be pretty frustrating for a GM thinking he had a deal done, no?

But then everyone selling this whole "we're going into 2026 with Luis as our starting CFer" will look pretty dumb if Robert finishes out the year well (and healthy, let's say a 700+ ops) and they just give him the $2 million buyout anyway.

That would be the waste of another $7 million that could have gone somewhere else.

[nrockway]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

It was a podcast. Him and Jon Daniels talking about the GM job, how they got theirs, and the duties involved, how the position has morphed just over their time in the game. I found it interesting. Hahn was in baseball about 23 years and has a ton of knowledge. 

I'm gonna listen to it when I get a chance, I just like trash-talking Hahn. 😃 It's very likely I'm just jealous of Rick because his first name kinda sounds like mine and it's just a reminder that they gave that nerd the GM job instead of to me; but realistically I think you have to have played at least college baseball (or softball) to be the 'general manager'. Hahn was very good at contracts. Kin Ng is very good at statistical analysis. But having been a part of the 'club' seems to be an important factor in any sport.

I do think the braintrust at SoxTalk or at any sports forum would be a better 'front office' than most of them.

[Tony]

32 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I'm gonna listen to it when I get a chance, I just like trash-talking Hahn. 😃 It's very likely I'm just jealous of Rick because his first name kinda sounds like mine and it's just a reminder that they gave that nerd the GM job instead of to me; but realistically I think you have to have played at least college baseball (or softball) to be the 'general manager'. Hahn was very good at contracts. Kin Ng is very good at statistical analysis. But having been a part of the 'club' seems to be an important factor in any sport.

I do think the braintrust at SoxTalk or at any sports forum would be a better 'front office' than most of them.

Listen to the podcast. They talk a lot about this. 

There are a lot of shapes and sizes for GM's. As they discuss on the podcast, a good GM has to have a ton of traits. In 99/100 cases, one person isn't strong in all of those traits. You have to be a good leader of people and management, and have a very good staff around you that fills in those weak spots. 

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

Listen to the podcast. They talk a lot about this. 

There are a lot of shapes and sizes for GM's. As they discuss on the podcast, a good GM has to have a ton of traits. In 99/100 cases, one person isn't strong in all of those traits. You have to be a good leader of people and management, and have a very good staff around you that fills in those weak spots. 

The line Jon Daniels gave in his interview with Dan ODowd about having an MBA, and him asking if he said he was in the NBA was spectacular.  Listening to the Rick Hahn part now.

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But then everyone selling this whole "we're going into 2026 with Luis as our starting CFer" will look pretty dumb if Robert finishes out the year well (and healthy, let's say a 700+ ops) and they just give him the $2 million buyout anyway.

That would be the waste of another $7 million that could have gone somewhere else.

I have no idea if it will happen or not, but one thing I knew as an absolute fact is that Jerry could give a f*** less about public relations hits.

[southsider2k5]

"...midway through (20)21 we lost some of that. And Part of it was the injuries, part of it was down year, part of it was the clubhouse vibe changed dramatically over the course of the '21 season."

Yeah, there it is.

 

The quote is at 41:25, but if you back up a minute or so for the context, it is brutal to hear outloud.

[chitownsportsfan]

44 minutes ago, Tony said:

Listen to the podcast. They talk a lot about this. 

There are a lot of shapes and sizes for GM's. As they discuss on the podcast, a good GM has to have a ton of traits. In 99/100 cases, one person isn't strong in all of those traits. You have to be a good leader of people and management, and have a very good staff around you that fills in those weak spots. 

This is what Hahn was supposed to be good at coming from his background. It was arguably the worst aspect of his tenure. He couldn't for the life of him find quality scouts, managers and coaches. We likely don't get Robert unless KW goes down there and personally puts the word in to JR. That was just a one off. 

Edited August 6 by chitownsportsfan

[southsider2k5]

Two more interesting pieces were Rick laughing about the other host wanting him to get Nomar Mazara in the Sale deal, and how bad that ended up being, and Rick replied that he ended up getting him and his "non-production" later on anyway.

A a non-specified deadline, Rick went to Jerry with data and had a list of trades he wanted to make to sell, because he calculated the team had between a 9-11% chance at the wild card, and instead Jerry took that as a challenge and wouldn't let Rick sell.

[Chisoxfn]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Two more interesting pieces were Rick laughing about the other host wanting him to get Nomar Mazara in the Sale deal, and how bad that ended up being, and Rick replied that he ended up getting him and his "non-production" later on anyway.

A a non-specified deadline, Rick went to Jerry with data and had a list of trades he wanted to make to sell, because he calculated the team had between a 9-11% chance at the wild card, and instead Jerry took that as a challenge and wouldn't let Rick sell.

I legit think the 9-11 percent window is aligned with when they traded Tatis for Shields.