6 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Right on. Putting the ball in play is more productive than a K, as anything can happen. Ks are rally killers with RISP.

Over the course of the last two months of the season Acuna would have put the ball in play loads more than Colson did.

On 10/10/2026 at 9:58 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Fuller’ll fixem.

I mean, he did. They’re a top 3 offense in the game. Tied for best in the AL

17 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

I mean, he did. They’re a top 3 offense in the game. Tied for best in the AL

Setting strikeout records in the postseason doesn’t make me think they are fixed.

10 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Goes to show the Sox still have a long ways to go as an organization.

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Setting strikeout records in the postseason doesn’t make me think they are fixed.

Would you make wholesale changes due to a 7 game sample in May, June or July?

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Would you make wholesale changes due to a 7 game sample in May, June or July?

No, but setting records for strikeout futility in the biggest games of your season doesn’t prove to me that anything is truly fixed. Colson absolutely falling apart and Braden not doing much are other factors.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by WhiteSox2023

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

No, but setting records for strikeout futility in the biggest games of your season doesn’t prove to me that anything is truly fixed. Colson absolutely falling apart and Braden not doing much are other factors.

The players failed for sure. They scored enough to win game 4 and the pitching failed. If they struck out 75 times and moved on because someone hit a 3 run homer on Saturday, it wouldn't matter as much how the outs were made. I wouldn't make any sweeping decisions based on the the playoffs though.

4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

The players failed for sure. They scored enough to win game 4 and the pitching failed. If they struck out 75 times and moved on because someone hit a 3 run homer on Saturday, it wouldn't matter as much how the outs were made. I wouldn't make any sweeping decisions based on the the playoffs though.

I also forgot to mention Mune falling apart like Colson. It wasn’t just the playoffs.

40 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

The players failed for sure. They scored enough to win game 4 and the pitching failed. If they struck out 75 times and moved on because someone hit a 3 run homer on Saturday, it wouldn't matter as much how the outs were made. I wouldn't make any sweeping decisions based on the the playoffs though.

The season to me trended like 2021. As the year progressed the team continually back tracked. The last two games of the playoffs were awful but the writing was on the wall in August in September that things were not going as planned.

How nothing was done with Colson Montgomery to address the fact he was about set the all time record was concerning.

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Setting strikeout records in the postseason doesn’t make me think they are fixed.

I'm a big fan of dismissing a 162 game sample in favor of just looking the last 3 games of a 5 game set, too. It's what all the cool kids are doing these days. Smoking is out, contrarianism is in.

13 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

I'm a big fan of dismissing a 162 game sample in favor of just looking the last 3 games of a 5 game set, too. It's what all the cool kids are doing these days. Smoking is out, contrarianism is in.

Setting strikeout records is a whole different level, and it wasn’t just the playoffs. But you already knew this.

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Would you make wholesale changes due to a 7 game sample in May, June or July?

I would argue this was much more than a 7 game stretch when it comes to guys like Colson and Mune. That is severely underplaying the disaster that was their second half. Nothing about the playoffs was misrepresentative of what we saw a lot of in the rest of this season.

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

The season to me trended like 2021. As the year progressed the team continually back tracked. The last two games of the playoffs were awful but the writing was on the wall in August in September that things were not going as planned.

How nothing was done with Colson Montgomery to address the fact he was about set the all time record was concerning.

I'm not going to lie, the parallels to the Orioles recent stretch up and down does scare me.

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I'm not going to lie, the parallels to the Orioles recent stretch up and down does scare me.

Which is where Fuller came from. Long term I just do not like their hitting philosophy.

7 minutes ago, wegner said:

Which is where Fuller came from. Long term I just do not like their hitting philosophy.

All of the way down to the lack of pitching and the inability to turn out their own pitching to a large extent. We will see if they mimic their fear of being aggressive in acquring pitching.

8 hours ago, Falstaff said:

The Sox had the least DPs in all of MLB with 73

The last 3 games were terrible, but the season had some solid numbers.

AL:

Sox #1 in runs, this is the most important stat.

Sox #1 in base on balls

Sox #1 hit by pitch

Sox#2 OBP

Sox#3 HR

Sox#3 strike out

Sox#30 (in MLB) ground into least DP

🤔. I wonder why that was? For context, here is where we ranked in those categories in 2022.

AL:

Runs: 8th

BB: 15th

HBP: 4th

GIDP: Tied for 4th

Home Runs: 10th (our team leader had 17 home runs on a team that was built to hit home runs. )

K: 13th

In fairness, Eloy would have cleared 30 had he been healthy. Still....

If people don't understand how ground balls are worse after reading that... I don't know what to tell you.

13 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Right on. Putting the ball in play is more productive than a K, as anything can happen. Ks are rally killers with RISP.

Definitely a bigger rally killer then a double play

3 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

Definitely a bigger rally killer then a double play

I will note this much. Most years, the GIDP leaders are in the 25 to 30 range. For strike outs, that number is typically over 200. Contact is far from a one to one when it comes to GIDP. The end result of more contact is most often more outs, but only a small fraction of those would be double plays, by average.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will note this much. Most years, the GIDP leaders are in the 25 to 30 range. For strike outs, that number is typically over 200. Contact is far from a one to one when it comes to GIDP. The end result of more contact is most often more outs, but only a small fraction of those would be double plays, by average.

Not what I'm arguing. Arguing about how ground ball rate and aggressiveness might avoid K's but lead to a higher GIDP rate. Which is the ultimate rally killer

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Colome's Hat

3 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

Not what I'm arguing. Arguing about how ground ball rate and aggressiveness might avoid K's but lead to a higher GIDP rate. Which is the ultimate rally killer

Sure, but on average, more contact leads to way more hits than it will DPs. By a factor of 8 to 10X just based on how many hits versus DPs happen in a season. The vast majority of contact will end in an out either way, but contact allows for WAAAAY more hits than DPs. I know the focus is on DPs because it is the worst case scenario, but it is also one of the least common outcomes.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sure, but on average, more contact leads to way more hits than it will DPs. By a factor of 8 to 10X just based on how many hits versus DPs happen in a season. The vast majority of contact will end in an out either way, but contact allows for WAAAAY more hits than DPs. I know the focus is on DPs because it is the worst case scenario, but it is also one of the least common outcomes.

Not what I'm arguing dude. I'm saying that the 2022 team had a highly aggressive approach at the plate which did cut down on strikeouts but also increased ground balls that were outs. The 2026 team struck out more but was a lot less aggressive at the plate and thus hit the ball in the air more and walked. That patience at the plate can lead to strikeouts as if you don't get the pitch you want, you don't swing. I'm honestly Kenny Williams shocked that you'd rather see a team like the 2022 team vs the 2026 team. Becuase that is what you are arguing for.

I'd also argue that the strikeouts piled up in the playoffs due to pressure and less because of anything Shoman did.

5 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

Not what I'm arguing dude. I'm saying that the 2022 team had a highly aggressive approach at the plate which did cut down on strikeouts but also increased ground balls that were outs. The 2026 team struck out more but was a lot less aggressive at the plate and thus hit the ball in the air more and walked. That patience at the plate can lead to strikeouts as if you don't get the pitch you want, you don't swing. I'm honestly Kenny Williams shocked that you'd rather see a team like the 2022 team vs the 2026 team. Becuase that is what you are arguing for.

I'd also argue that the strikeouts piled up in the playoffs due to pressure and less because of anything Shoman did.

I never stated a preference.

I just pointed that that the only result of striking out less is not double plays. In fact, it is still one of the lowest percentage outcomes in the world of potential outcomes.

Here are a couple more stats for people who want to fire Shoman and see the White Sox rework their offensive approach.

Chase Rate / O-Swing%(Swinging at pitches out of the zone):

2022 White Sox: 34.7% (4th worst in MLB)

2026 White Sox: 28.8% (Better then league average)

Zone Swing % (Swinging at strikes):

2022 White Sox: 69% (top of the league)

2026 White Sox: 68.2% (top ten)

Whiff% (swing and miss)

2022 White Sox: 24.1%

2026 White Sox: 27.8%

Because the White Sox had no plate discipline in 2022, they struck out less even though they swung at everything. In 2026, they traded that aggressiveness to only swing hard at pitches they could actually do some damage on.

I actually think, and statistical analysis backs me up here, that the issue in Games 3-5 is that they abandoned the approach that had brought them to this point.

17 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

Here are a couple more stats for people who want to fire Shoman and see the White Sox rework their offensive approach.

Chase Rate / O-Swing%(Swinging at pitches out of the zone):

2022 White Sox: 34.7% (4th worst in MLB)

2026 White Sox: 28.8% (Better then league average)

Zone Swing % (Swinging at strikes):

2022 White Sox: 69% (top of the league)

2026 White Sox: 68.2% (top ten)

Whiff% (swing and miss)

2022 White Sox: 24.1%

2026 White Sox: 27.8%

Because the White Sox had no plate discipline in 2022, they struck out less even though they swung at everything. In 2026, they traded that aggressiveness to only swing hard at pitches they could actually do some damage on.

I actually think, and statistical analysis backs me up here, that the issue in Games 3-5 is that they abandoned the approach that had brought them to this point.

Or it reached its limits against close to elite pitching...wellx maybe not Griffin, although even he made the All Star team with WSH first half.