Gene Honda Civic Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Aaron Rowand in the 2 hole >>>>>> Aaron Rowand in the 6hole, imo. He gets tons of extra base hits and uses the entire field. His whiffs are a little higher then I'd like from a 2 hole hitter and his walks are low, but he gets tons of extra base hits and still does a solid job handling the bat. Can I agree and disagree with that at the same time??.. I'm gonna try... I think Aaron can be a solid 2-hole hitter, if that's what you want him to be. Tell him coming into ST that the #2 spot is his, and I'm sure he'll work his ass off to be the best bunter on the team, as he was the last time most of his PT came in the #2 hole. However, in the second half, Aaron was a bona fide RBI guy... RBI's by month (4,7,8,8,24,17) -- He adjusted nicely to his new role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Can I agree and disagree with that at the same time??.. I'm gonna try... I think Aaron can be a solid 2-hole hitter, if that's what you want him to be. Tell him coming into ST that the #2 spot is his, and I'm sure he'll work his ass off to be the best bunter on the team, as he was the last time most of his PT came in the #2 hole. However, in the second half, Aaron was a bona fide RBI guy... RBI's by month (4,7,8,8,24,17) -- He adjusted nicely to his new role. Honestly i think a couple years down the road we will see rowand batting third for us. But for that to happen he needs to develope a better eye. He does not walk nearly enough for a lead-off, 2 hole hitter, or a 3 hole hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I completely agree. I mean in the perfect world you have a great 1 and 2 hole hitter and you can let Aaron hit back in the lineup. But right now with the true lack of a two hole hitter, that Aaron would be a good fit there. Hell, he puts up these kind of numbers over a full year (project his last couple months) and I'll stick his ass in the 3 spot. As far as a new CF goes, unless its Andruw Jones or Carlos Beltran, I'll take Rowand cause he plays a damn good CF and has one of the best CF arms in all of baseball. But Cheat, I pretty much agree completely with ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Rex, didn't you say that that vizquel wants a guaranteed two year deal. If that is the case i am sure he would not go for cheats offer. I know i have have seen it some where just not sure where. That is my understanding yes....... obviously, if he can only get a one year deal, then that is what he will have to take... he'd like a 3 year deal, but I don't think he is holding his breath..... What it will boil down to is how well his agent can negotiate. There will be three or four teams that will make (or have already made) overtures and at least two or three, including the Sox that will be serious. Which team wants him most? Which has the least reasonable "plan b"? Which team will offer an amount to get Omar to say yes without trying to continue the negotiating process? That is what will matter and it MAY take $8 million to get him. It is not like the Sox are the only team that is interested in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 However, in the second half, Aaron was a bona fide RBI guy... RBI's by month (4,7,8,8,24,17) -- He adjusted nicely to his new role. I like Rowand in the 6th hole. With our power guys also good OBP guys who can draw walks, Aaron will get his RBI chances. Plus, Ozzie seems to like some middle of the order guys who have some speed. As Aaron showed last year, he can have success stealing bases. He'll get more chances to steal hitting in front of the 7th hitter, say ross gload, then he would hitting in front of Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Can I agree and disagree with that at the same time??.. I'm gonna try... I think Aaron can be a solid 2-hole hitter, if that's what you want him to be. Tell him coming into ST that the #2 spot is his, and I'm sure he'll work his ass off to be the best bunter on the team, as he was the last time most of his PT came in the #2 hole. However, in the second half, Aaron was a bona fide RBI guy... RBI's by month (4,7,8,8,24,17) -- He adjusted nicely to his new role. I could agree with that. That is the biggest reason I have loved Aaron since his debut is his work ethic. He butchered some sacrifice bunts badly last year and didn't look comfortable doing it. He also has a pretty decent pull swing, but I would bet he could get some good advice and fix that too. Right now I see him as being more of the lead off, #3 or #6 hitter, depending on who is healthy, and who else is signed for 2005. If Frank isn't healthy to start the season, I would love to see them give ARow a shot at hitting #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Cabrerra has tools and is a fantastic defensive player. I think he has the talent to be a good offensive player too, but this is a guy thats yet to put it all together and 7 plus a year...YA RIGHT. I'm with you completely and I'm a Cabrerra fan. Had he not gone to Boston he probably would of gotten 4 mill a year. The fact that he rejected a four year/30 million dollar deal from the Expos earlier this year is one of the reasons he is considered for a contract of this caliber. The guy is excellent. He's a double machine, kills fastballs, was clutch, and is a top 3 defensive player in the league. I don't know about 7.5, but Cabs is very deserving of 6-6.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 top 3 defensive player in the league. You mean at short right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 You mean at short right? He's the best defensive shortstop in baseball. I said what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 The fact that he rejected a four year/30 million dollar deal from the Expos earlier this year is one of the reasons he is considered for a contract of this caliber. The guy is excellent. He's a double machine, kills fastballs, was clutch, and is a top 3 defensive player in the league. I don't know about 7.5, but Cabs is very deserving of 6-6.5 I'll take Vizquel for $2-3 mill less a year for fewer years with fewer strings attached. Boston can keep Cabrera...$6 mill is too much for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 He's the best defensive shortstop in baseball. I said what I said. I'll take Jose Valentin defensively over Cabrera, thank you very much Valentin - 4th in range factor(4.910), 2nd in zone rating(.878) while committing 20 errors in 409 total chances, a .965 fielding percentage Cabrera - 14th in range factor(4.390), 14th in zone rating(.838) while committing 15 errors in 489 chances, a .978 fielding percentage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I'll take Jose Valentin defensively over Cabrera, thank you very much Valentin - 4th in range factor(4.910), 2nd in zone rating(.878) while committing 20 errors in 409 total chances, a .965 fielding percentage Cabrera - 14th in range factor(4.390), 14th in zone rating(.838) while committing 15 errors in 489 chances, a .978 fielding percentage please. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 It is prety amazing how thick the Red Sox blinders are on you... :headshake It's pretty amazing how you offer nothing to each and every post you reply in. Do you have a brain? Jose Valentin defensively, a better short stop than Orlando Cabrera? Get a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I still don't get the excitment about Vizquel. I mean last year was his only decent year in four years. His defense isn't what it used to be. I'm sorry but I think a Uribe and Harris up the middle gives us better defense and both will Harris and Vizquel will hit the same .260 +. Plus if Harris can repeat that same .343 OBP in the 9 hole then I would be more then happy with it. Plus even with Willie being lost of the basepaths he still had the same number of stolen bases as Vizquel. Not only that he is still a bigger threat to score from 1st on a double. If we are going to bother getting a short stop at least get one with some potential to improve. He already is saying he doesn't want to lead off. I sense a bad attitude there. He should be willing to do whatever the teams wants him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 It's pretty amazing how you offer nothing to each and every post you reply in. It's funny how you say that.. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Screw him, get Rentaria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 It's pretty amazing how you offer nothing to each and every post you reply in. Do you have a brain? Jose Valentin defensively, a better short stop than Orlando Cabrera? Get a clue. I think Valentin could very well be better on D than Cabrera. Given the fielding pcts. I think Valentin boots maybe 8 more balls than Cabrera in the same number of chances. Valentin has better range and a better arm (defensive stats aren't great, but zone rating isn't bad and Valentin was a lot better), and I can easily believe that he would turn at least 8 more hits into out than Cabrera. I'm not trolling for an argument here, but why do you think Cabrera has better glove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I'll take Jose Valentin defensively over Cabrera, thank you very much Valentin - 4th in range factor(4.910), 2nd in zone rating(.878) while committing 20 errors in 409 total chances, a .965 fielding percentage Cabrera - 14th in range factor(4.390), 14th in zone rating(.838) while committing 15 errors in 489 chances, a .978 fielding percentage Don't use stats, stats lie. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I'll take Jose Valentin defensively over Cabrera, thank you very much Valentin - 4th in range factor(4.910), 2nd in zone rating(.878) while committing 20 errors in 409 total chances, a .965 fielding percentage Cabrera - 14th in range factor(4.390), 14th in zone rating(.838) while committing 15 errors in 489 chances, a .978 fielding percentage wite, don't bother. This argument eerily reminds of me aruging with Cub fans between Konerko and Derrek Lee. They think a single gold glove season makes up for being a carrer .266 hitter. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 wite, don't bother. This argument eerily reminds of me aruging with Cub fans between Konerko and Derrek Lee. They think a single gold glove season makes up for being a carrer .266 hitter. :rolly Ummm, Derek Lee is a pretty damn good first baseman. He hits for power, a solid average and is a very good baserunner. Plus he is great defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Ummm, Derek Lee is a pretty damn good first baseman. He hits for power, a solid average and is a very good baserunner. Plus he is great defensively. A .266 average is not "solid," he strikes out a TON, and it's not like Konerko is a horrible defensive first baseman (like Cub fans think.) Add in the fact that the guy is a really incosistent hitter, has never been an All-Star, never had 40+ homers in a season (you should've heard how many homers the Chicago radio was predicting this guy was going to hit in 2004,) and has never drove in 100+ runs in a season. I think he is a good player, but I would still take Pauly over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 and it's not like Konerko is a horrible defensive first baseman (like Cub fans think.) Not saying he is great but he is top 3-5 in the american league. Imo and probally many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 A .266 average is not "solid," he strikes out a TON, and it's not like Konerko is a horrible defensive first baseman (like Cub fans think.) Add in the fact that the guy is a really incosistent hitter, has never been an All-Star, never had 40+ homers in a season (you should've heard how many homers the Chicago radio was predicting this guy was going to hit in 2004,) and has never drove in 100+ runs in a season. I think he is a good player, but I would still take Pauly over him. Ya, problem is he hit .278 this past season and is an absolute doubles machine. His OPS was only 30 worse then Konerko too. Plus 32 homers is nothing too shabby. I think their is a pretty good debate on who would be better and to be honest, I think I could see going with Lee, especially since he's produced in pitcher parks like Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 It's a tough call. I mean, I like Paulie and all but Lee's speed is one stark advantage for Lee while his D is better than Konerko's. See Ramirez's errors dropping from 33 last year (10 in 63 games with the FLubs, to 10 all season this year. I'd probably go with Lee but it's close. I wouldn't feel real good about either being the go-to-guy in my offense and think they are both better suited to hit 5th or 6th in a potent lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 You mean at short right? Yes he is the best defensive shortstop and he is the best fielder period imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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