Hopefully Kenny wouldn't overpay HALF as much for Vazquez as that offer for Randy.  I know, I know...its Randy Johnson, but Paulie, s***head and Anderson is unbelievable, making it painfully clear that Randy said no.  I have no proof...but raises an eyebrow doesn't it?

 

Anyone else not big on Vazquez?  Dude was not consistent in the AL.  Yes, he has great stuff, but still a question mark in my opinion and the last thing the Sox need in the rotation is yet another question mark.  Let me check his numbers, maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought it was.

Ditto.

 

Depending on how much money the Yanks would send with Javy, we would probably be investing more money in Javy than Randy.

The thing I do find interesting is that didn't KW give up Jeremy Reed because he said Anderson is the perfect replacement for him and then KW wanted to trade Anderson for RJ....kinda odd me thinks.

How do you know KW "wanted" to give up Anderson?

 

It was started on internet message boards, then Phil Rogers included his name in a potential deal, then an Arizona paper mention Anderson, and now Gammons is "reporting" it.

 

I'll believe it when I hear it from KW's mouth.

 

Would any of you be willing to part with Anderson if Arizona tossed in another prospect?

Ariz. will be saving cash on RJ [$16 mill] and w/ Sexton. They could and should sign a FA SP to a 3 yr deal. Seeing how you've talked about them wanting and needing to brings fans to the park, they can't fill the roster w/ scrubs. They'll spend some cash and should go the FA route

 

Pk and a midlevel prospect [in the 11-20 range of BA] would likely do it. With Vazquez' escape clause, they can't get much for him. Who will trade SP for a guy who could leave after one yr [most likely only a playoff contender with a few spare parts]. With the D-backs hole at 1B, Vazquez plus some cash for PK + would be very doable and generous for the sox.

Wait a minute.

 

I heard that Javy could demand a trade after the 2005 season because he has more than 2 years left on his deal. What happens if he demands a trade? He becomes a FA if KW decides not to trade him?

 

f*** that.

 

I would rather give up more to get one year (possibly two) of Randy Johnson than one year of Vazquez.

I don't know for sure KW would give Anderson but I am simply going off the report. Given its mostly speculation but if he did add Anderson for RJ it would seem odd due to the reason I gave prior. Knowing that Gammons had anything to do with any of the rumor, means it probably is BS anyway but who knows.

Your all missing the point. We should be celebrating.

Now we can upgrade our offense and get a solid pitcher for a third of the price. Randy Johnson is too big of a gamble with our payroll. We aren't the yankees.

You're all missing the point. We should be celebrating.

Now we can upgrade our offense and get a solid pitcher for a third of the price. Randy Johnson is too big of a gamble with our payroll. We aren't the yankees.

So we should be happy that our ownership doesn't have to raise the payroll to adding a player of Randy Johnson's caliber?

 

Why do you care how much (little) money Reinsdorf and Co. spend this offseason?

 

I would be shocked if they signed Odalis Perez or Matt Clement and didn't trade Konerko this offseason.

So we should be happy that our ownership doesn't have to raise the payroll to adding a player of Randy Johnson's caliber?

 

Why do you care how much (little) money Reinsdorf and Co. spend this offseason?

 

I would be shocked if they signed Odalis Perez or Matt Clement and didn't trade Konerko this offseason.

The fact is that we aren't going to raise payroll one cent period.

It's just being realistic. We should be happy that we didn't cripple our organization by leaving us unable to upgrade the bullpen or the offense.

You're all missing the point. We should be celebrating.

Now we can upgrade our offense and get a solid pitcher for a third of the price. Randy Johnson is too big of a gamble with our payroll. We aren't the yankees.

 

The fact is that we aren't going to raise payroll one cent period. It's just being realistic. We should be happy that we didn't cripple our organization by leaving us unable to upgrade the bullpen or the offense.

 

So how exactly are we going to improve our offense and get a solid pitcher if you know for a fact that we aren't going to raise payroll by a single cent?

I looked over Vazquez's game log and compared it to Garlands. They seem to have about the same number of quality starts. Vazquez appeared to be as inconsistent as Garland.

 

What is the definition of a quality start? 6IP

So how exactly are we going to improve our offense and get a solid pitcher if you know for a fact that we aren't going to raise payroll by a single cent?

I was told there'd be no math on this website ...

 

Hey S=D, I like your sig. You should include "would have" instead of "would of" as well.

If my definition of a quality start is correct >=6IP

I was told there'd be no math on this website ... 

 

Hey S=D, I like your sig.  You should include "would have" instead of "would of" as well.

Thank you.

 

I would also like to find out how Jeckle knows that payroll isn't going up by a "single cent" even after the Giants stole Vizquel from us. I recall seeing articles in the Cubune mentioning a possible payroll of $70 million+, but I don't know how much truth is involved with those articles.

This Gammons article was up a day or two before thanksgiving. I don't believe a word of it.

If my definition of a quality start is correct >=6IP <=3ER than Vazquez had 16 and Garland had 15. If you ask me, Quality Starts is a more important stat than ERA. If a pitcher has a few really bad outings than his ERA could be huge. Quality starts lets you know how often he keeps his team in the game.

You can't put too much faith in the system to determine quality starts because it doesn't account for WHIP.

 

Theoretically, a pitcher can walk the bases loaded for 6 innings, and if he gives up less than 4 runs, it's a quality start.

 

Suppose an error is made with 2 outs. The pitchers then proceeds to give up 18 consecutive hits (Manuel is the manager.) No earned runs are charged to the pitcher, and assuming the pitcher has gone 6 innings, it's a quality start.

 

Don't forget that Vazquez was an All-Star this Year whereas Buehrle wasn't. :rolly :rolly :rolly

I don't know for sure KW would give Anderson but I am simply going off the report. Given its mostly speculation but if he did add Anderson for RJ it would seem odd due to the reason I gave prior. Knowing that Gammons had anything to do with any of the rumor, means it probably is BS anyway but who knows.

Sorta.

 

Kenny always talks about the 3 year board. Perhaps with the emergence of Rowand, they feel one of Anderson or Sweeney can be traded. I'm sure they'll resign Carlos, so 2 of the 3 outfield sports would then be filled.

Sorta.

 

Kenny always talks about the 3 year board. Perhaps with the emergence of Rowand, they feel one of Anderson or Sweeney can be traded. I'm sure they'll resign Carlos, so 2 of the 3 outfield sports would then be filled.

When Rick Hahn was on ESPN 1000's "Hot Stove Program," he talked about that 3 year board, and I remember him saying McCarthy is part of it. He may have also said Anderson was part of it (I can't remember exactly,) but he also said the only player that KW traded that was on that board was Olivo.

While they want to upgrade hillenbrand is a fine first baseman. I agree that he would only get better offensively here. I can possibly see his obp reach into the .360 range along with 25 homeruns. He is a major upgrade over crede, better in every single major offensive category.

Because they're trying(tried) to resign Sexson. That must mean something.

I'm going to wait and see what happens, I'm tired of reading reports in the media of who is going where, nobody knows anything until a deal is done. Believe I love looking at all the rumors as much as anyone else I'm just trying not to get caught up in any of them until a trade is finalized.

Before we get all into Javier Vazquez, I want to make sure I know two things about him:

 

1.) He's 100% healthy, no shoulder problems, no arm problems.

 

2.) I want to be positive that he knows what he has to do, or someone within the organization knows what to do, to get his arm back up in the slot (or whatever they called it), like he had it in the first half of the season.

 

If both of these things are good, IMHO, Konerko and a mid-leveler (like mentioned earlier in the thread) for Vazquez should be good, with 'Zone or NY eating some of his contract. A healthy, corrected Vazquez is pretty dominant. Look at his first half stats. Damn good.

While they want to upgrade hillenbrand is a fine first baseman.

Uh...no...he's not! He actually hates playin there and b****ed about it all the time when he had to. I really wouldn't want any part of Hillbilly Big Truck Brand.

Uh...no...he's not!  He actually hates playin there and b****ed about it all the time when he had to.  I really wouldn't want any part of Hillbilly Big Truck Brand.

He is top five in range factor just about in the middle of the pack for zone rating. He sure seems fine to me. Did i ever say he was great? Because i do not recall.

Hillenbrand has never drawn 26 walks in a season. I don't believe in obp. as a key stat (I follow more like the Angels and Twins) but I'm sure a lot of people would be upset with having a guy with no walks. Hawk and DJ wouldn't be upset though.

When Rick Hahn was on ESPN 1000's "Hot Stove Program," he talked about that 3 year board, and I remember him saying McCarthy is part of it. He may have also said Anderson was part of it (I can't remember exactly,) but he also said the only player that KW traded that was on that board was Olivo.

I'm not gonna debate what was said... cuz I heard the same thing.

 

BUT... Think about that for a second... The #1 prospect in the organization, who was playing in AAA, just one level from the bigs, not on the 3-year chart? That just doesn't add up... Hahn's just blowin smoke.

Gammons reports that the yanks are getting closer to getting the johnson deal done.  it will supposedly be vazquez and 2 prospects plus cash for johnson.  Gammons also reiterated that it woudl be stupid for the dbacks to keep vazquez so look for them to trade him. he mentioned the sox as possilble suitors.  Also on a side note, the sox apparently offered PK, Garland, and Anderson for RJ. seems kinda steep to me

One thing perplexes me about this so called offer. Had the Sox actually made this offer, their is no doubt in my mind Arizona would accept it or at least begin the process and let the Sox people talk with RJ.

 

I have to think the Sox and Dbacks have made phone calls but I highly doubt a formal offer has been made thus far, despite what the media is reporting.

One thing perplexes me about this so called offer.  Had the Sox actually made this offer, their is no doubt in my mind Arizona would accept it or at least begin the process and let the Sox people talk with RJ. 

 

I have to think the Sox and Dbacks have made phone calls but I highly doubt a formal offer has been made thus far, despite what the media is reporting.

More speculation from Fox Sports

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team?categoryId=71590

Trade talk: Since early in 2004, GM Ken Williams had his sights set on prying loose ace LHP Randy Johnson from Arizona. Now, he's putting together one of the most attractive trade packages among the interested teams to acquire the Big Unit. The White Sox reportedly have offered 1B Paul Konerko and RHP Jon Garland to pick up Johnson at the top of their rotation. The deal makes sense in that Konerko, an Arizona resident, is in the last year of his contract and at peak trade value coming off of a 40-home run, 100-plus RBI season. Garland avoided arbitration by signing a one-year deal but could use a change of scenery in order to reach his full potential. The White Sox might have to add in OF Brian Anderson, the team's top pick from 2003 and a Tucson resident, to complete the deal.

 

Be sure to click on Anderson's name. :dips***