Jokers Wild

[southsideirish71]

You commented that 3B have reached their potential by 27 or so, and Crede is regressing.

 

Again, when did Randa blossom?  Please let us know.

 

I will comment if you don't want to look it up, but since you're looking the numbers up I presume you can see at what age Randa blossomed into a consistent offensive player, and don't forget to put that year he hit .254 in there.

Hint, he hit his stride in 2000 and has been fairly consistent since then.

 

MLB experience is what I am talking about. Joe has been up in the show for the last few years. There is a difference betewen Randa making the jump from the minors running instead of Crede who cant hit at all.

 

There is a difference between Randa having a bad year, and Crede having a bad career.

[Guest JimH]

It looks to me like he's hurt, no Hr's this month rouhly100 point drop off for OBP SLG, and 180 from OPS and only 3 walks this month vs 14 in April.  He's also listed as doubtful for next game. He is, however, great in the last three months of the year pretty consistantly.

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He is especially good in September, several ways to interpret that.

[Rowand44]

MLB experience is what I am talking about.  Joe has been up in the show for the last few years.  There is a difference betewen Randa making the jump from the minors running instead of Crede who cant hit at all.

 

There is a difference between Randa having a bad year, and Crede having a bad career.

People were saying they exact same thing on Jon. "He might be 25 but he has a ton of major league experience."

[RockRaines]

Randa's a .280ish hitter while Joe is a .240-.250ish hitter.  That's not a HUGE jump especially when team chemistry and defense are taken into account.  I'm a big Joe Randa fan but Kenny is going to look for a big upgrade not just Joe Randa.

I bet KW has looked in that direction, but assumed there was a better option elsewhere. Where are the Polanco lovers who would rather have PP??

[Guest JimH]

MLB experience is what I am talking about.  Joe has been up in the show for the last few years.  There is a difference betewen Randa making the jump from the minors running instead of Crede who cant hit at all.

 

There is a difference between Randa having a bad year, and Crede having a bad career.

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Not a problem, but first you talked about age and then MLB experience.

 

Randa really hit his stride in 2000 with KC at age 30, perhaps it was '99 at age 29.

[Frankensteiner]

He's extremely durable and with a team built on pitching, his defense is definitely part of the equation.  Randa has not been durable lately.  Bad back, bad foot, arthro on his knee ...  Not knocking him at all but it's true.

 

You know, I think the "defense" drum for Crede's rag-ass has been beaten to death. To me, he's an OK defensive player but has far less ability than some of his supporters would suggest.

 

One thing I should add though is I consider 3B to be an offensive position (with the other infield and outfield corner spots). Therefore, I would like to see more than just some decent defense.

[Jabroni]

Randa's a .270ish hitter while Joe is a .240-.250ish hitter.  That's not a HUGE jump especially when team chemistry and defense are taken into account.  I'm a big Joe Randa fan but Kenny is going to look for a big upgrade not just Joe Randa.

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Randa's defense has been better this season and over his career than Crede's. Look at their respective fielding stats.

 

By the way, check the stats again. Randa is not a .270'ish hitter...

 

Joe Crede

.252 career AVG

.302 career OBP

 

Joe Randa

.286 career AVG

.342 career OBP

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[Rowand44]

You know, I think the "defense" drum for Crede's rag-ass has been beaten to death. To me, he's an OK defensive player but has far less ability than some of his supporters would suggest.

 

One thing I should add though is I consider 3B to be an offensive position (with the other infield and outfield corner spots). Therefore, I would like to see more than just some decent defense.

Crede's a very good defender, he makes some plays look easy out there that are actually very difficult plays. I respect your opinion about the offensive positions but I guess I just don't like that theory, for me it doesn't matter which positions you're getting your production from as long as you're getting it.

[Rowand44]

Randa's defense has been better this season and over his career than Crede's.  Look at their respective fielding stats.

 

By the way, check the stats again.  Randa is not a .270'ish hitter...

 

Joe Crede

.252 career AVG

.302 career OBP

 

Joe Randa

.286 career AVG

.342 career OBP

Once again, I changed that post.

[nitetrain8601]

Randa is hobbling at this point. KW will make a move that significantly improves the position. He's not going to go for a guy who's a slight upgrade and has injury concerns already. Randa won't help us win anymore games with his injury concerns and his inferior glove. Too early to pull a trigger. You'll see a trade in late June.

[Guest JimH]

Randa's defense has been better this season and over his career than Crede's.  Look at their respective fielding stats.

 

By the way, check the stats again.  Randa is not a .270'ish hitter...

 

Joe Crede

.252 career AVG

.302 career OBP

 

Joe Randa

.286 career AVG

.342 career OBP

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That's all well and good, but Randa has been getting less durable the past 2-3 years. Big issue in my book.

 

None of this matters BTW. Safe prediction, the Sox will not trade Crede to Cincy for Randa straight up. Doesn't matter if 3/4 of SoxTalk wants it that way or not.

[Jabroni]

Ya, I changed my post about his average and I don't give a crap what his defensive stats say, I've watched Randa play for years and Crede's a better defender, period.

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So Crede is the better defender even though the stats show Randa is better? Talk about a Crede apologist. :headshake

[southsideirish71]

Randa is hobbling at this point. KW will make a move that significantly improves the position. He's not going to go for a guy who's a slight upgrade and has injury concerns already. Randa won't help us win anymore games with his injury concerns and his inferior glove. Too early to pull a trigger. You'll see a trade in late June.

 

 

Inferior Glove? I know you are the guy with the Crede's Crew sig and I dont expect anythng but love for Crede but come on. Slight Upgrade? LOL

[RockRaines]

You know, I think the "defense" drum for Crede's rag-ass has been beaten to death. To me, he's an OK defensive player but has far less ability than some of his supporters would suggest.

 

One thing I should add though is I consider 3B to be an offensive position (with the other infield and outfield corner spots). Therefore, I would like to see more than just some decent defense.

Point well taken, on some teams 3B is a very offensive position, but also on some teams, offensive catchers are a rare thing, but on the sox its not. Having a position be a usual place for a big bat makes sense at 1B and some corner OF, but I would go to say that the IF positions are hit and miss. Some have SS that have huge bats, some even have the 2B. I agree that it would be nice to improve any position on the sox, I just dont see this one happening. I for one, would be glad to see the team improve, as would anybody who is a die hard fan.

[Rowand44]

So Crede is the better defender even though the stats show Randa is better?  Talk about a Crede apologist. :headshake

You know what Jabroni if you haven't learned by now I probably look at stats less then anyone around here to make my decisions on players. I've seen Randa play, I've seen Crede play, Crede's a better defender, period.

[nitetrain8601]

That's all well and good, but Randa has been getting less durable the past 2-3 years.  Big issue in my book.

 

Safe prediction, the Sox will not trade Crede to Cincy for Randa straight up.  Doesn't matter if 3/4 of SoxTalk wants it that way or not.

 

Best post. Crede won't get traded for Randa straight up. What motivation would Cincy have? I just don't see it. If Crede is traded, it's in a package for a bigger player.

[Jabroni]

That's all well and good, but Randa has been getting less durable the past 2-3 years.  Big issue in my book.

 

None of this matters BTW.  Safe prediction, the Sox will not trade Crede to Cincy for Randa straight up.  Doesn't matter if 3/4 of SoxTalk wants it that way or not.

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I could care less if they trade Crede for Randa or just prospects. As long as we trade for Randa or a 3rd baseman that can hit better than .225 and let Cruddy ride the pine. Then they can decide on what to do with Cruddy after the season is over.

[southsideirish71]

You know what Jabroni if you haven't learned by now I probably look at stats less then anyone around here to make my decisions on players.  I've seen Randa play, I've seen Crede play, Crede's a better defender, period.

 

 

Baseball is a stats based game. If am sure that if we ignore Range Factor and Fielding percentage Jose Valentin is a better defender also than Joe Randa. LOL.

[nitetrain8601]

Inferior Glove?  I know you are the guy with the Crede's Crew sig and I dont expect anythng but love for Crede but come on.  Slight Upgrade?  LOL

 

Yes. Randa is solid. He isn't making any spectacular plays at all though on the defensive end. Can he get a ground ball? Yes. Is he going to make a diving catch to his left? No. Crede has that. He's more athletic and could get to more balls than Randa. If you watched both play, you would be able to see that.

[Rowand44]

Baseball is a stats based game.  If am sure that if we ignore Range Factor and Fielding percentage Jose Valentin is a better defender also than Joe Randa.  LOL.

And if you look purely at those stats Jose Valentin has been a better defender then Orlando Cabrera also.

[Jabroni]

Inferior Glove?  I know you are the guy with the Crede's Crew sig and I dont expect anythng but love for Crede but come on.  Slight Upgrade?  LOL

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Of course the stats show otherwise. :rolly His offense would be a MASSIVE improvement and his glove wouldn't even be a downgrade.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Methinks that you should start working on Fields Fan Club because Crede's Crew is an endangered species.

In Crede's age 22 season, he was at AA Birmingham, posting a .306/.375/.490 line with 21 HR and 94 RBIs in 500 ABs...

 

In Fields age 22 season, he is posting a .213/.292/.320 line at AA Birmingham, on pace to strike out about 150 times.

 

Fields has Joe Borchard written all over him.

[Chisoxrd5]

You know what Jabroni if you haven't learned by now I probably look at stats less then anyone around here to make my decisions on players.  I've seen Randa play, I've seen Crede play, Crede's a better defender, period.

 

To be honest I think they are both good defenders...Goin back to Randa's sox killer days I do recall him picking EVERYTHING over at 3rd when they played against us. Crede has a solid glove, he is a above average defensive player (tag plays excluded).

 

Randa would be a moderate upgrade over Crede...but is he worth bringing in for multiple prospects? That I'm not so sure about...

[nitetrain8601]

I could care less if they trade Crede for Randa or just prospects.  As long as we trade for Randa or a 3rd baseman that can hit better than .225 and let Cruddy ride the pine.  Then they can decide on what to do with Cruddy after the season is over.

 

Let's also trade PK, Everett, Uribe, and Dye. Because their offense isn't doing good either.

[qwerty]

That's all well and good, but Randa has been getting less durable the past 2-3 years.  Big issue in my book.

 

None of this matters BTW.  Safe prediction, the Sox will not trade Crede to Cincy for Randa straight up.  Doesn't matter if 3/4 of SoxTalk wants it that way or not.

 

That would be a retarded trade and i hate crede as much as anyone here. I also have been the biggest backer for randa ( since october) and i think it would be moronic. Like you said it is a safe predicition that we would not trade crede for randa straight up... it would be something far less than crede.