Guest JimH Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Usually KW jumps the gun so he doesnt have to get into a bidding war with other contenders. Resting your laurels on the fact that we are a first place team, like the twins are so far back that a few losses cant negate that is a myopic view at best. Our pitching has been great. What hasnt been even good, our offense. So where do we upgrade. Crede is the obvious choice. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No one is resting on their laurels, not me in this discussion nor I suspect Sox mgmt. Their viewpoint is far from myopic, they are looking big picture and recognize the up's and downs of a baseball season. Myopic is shortshighted where people want to trade/release every player who's underperforming after two months. I said that being in 1st simply negates the need for an overpay panic trade. They are not going to trade for a 3B and sit Crede on the bench, they are not going to trade Crede for Joe Randa. If they make a trade to boost the offense, it won't be now. They like the makeup of this team but are not blind to it's weak points. It makes sense to see what Frank Thomas will add, they could've had him stay down there another 7-10 days but they brought him up. By the end of June they'll know precisely where this offense stands, and can make moves accordingly. The same goes for any pitching moves they might make too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:21 PM) Do you think the Sox negotiated a bit with Garcia's agent before pulling the trade off, seeing as he signed the 3 year deal almost immediately? Again, different circumstances because you're talking about a #2 proven starting pitcher who was being chased after by a few teams, not the least of which was the NYY. Totally different than Joe Randa. Is Randa related to Ozzie??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 And PK and Everett and Uribe... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> PK and Everett have shown throughout their careers that they can hit. Uribe is here because he's the only true SS on our roster. Crede has never shown that he can be a good hitter in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:21 PM) I think I'll pass on the Old Style. :puke High life is more my speed, but I like the occassional Old Style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:28 PM) No one is resting on their laurels, not me in this discussion nor I suspect Sox mgmt. Their viewpoint is far from myopic, they are looking big picture and recognize the up's and downs of a baseball season. Myopic is shortshighted where people want to trade/release every player who's underperforming after two months. I said that being in 1st simply negates the need for an overpay panic trade. They are not going to trade for a 3B and sit Crede on the bench, they are not going to trade Crede for Joe Randa. If they make a trade to boost the offense, it won't be now. They like the makeup of this team but are not blind to it's weak points. It makes sense to see what Frank Thomas will add, they could've had him stay down there another 7-10 days but they brought him up. By the end of June they'll know precisely where this offense stands, and can make moves accordingly. The same goes for any pitching moves they might make too. Is Crede underpeforming just in two months. Or does this underpeformance go back further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) Is Crede underpeforming just in two months. Or does this underpeformance go back further? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL. No, Cruddy has just sucked this season and this season alone. Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 PK and Everett have shown throughout their careers that they can hit. Uribe is here because he's the only true SS on our roster. Crede has never shown that he can be a good hitter in the majors. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I will go a step further, Crede and Uribe are here primarily because they play very good defense. Makes sense when you build the team around pitching. Since Konerko and Everett are proven hitters, the offensive expectations are greater for them than Crede and Uribe, and they should be. Crede hits down low in the order and for the most part Uribe does too. They don't expect the same level of offense from Crede/Uribe as Konerko and Everett. They are going to give this more time, and make a move accordingly. But I don't think it'll happen for several weeks. And when it does, I see 2nd tier prospects being traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) PK and Everett have shown throughout their careers that they can hit. Uribe is here because he's the only true SS on our roster. Crede has never shown that he can be a good hitter in the majors. And PK has shown that he has slumped before badly too and that he can't carry an offense like many people want to believe(which is what we have him trying to do now). Ozuna is the only true SS on this team. Uribe is more of a second baseman, hence KW not really going after a 2B unless it was Iguchi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) I will go a step further, Crede and Uribe are here primarily because they play very good defense. Makes sense when you build the team around pitching. Since Konerko and Everett are proven hitters, the offensive expectations are greater for them than Crede and Uribe, and they should be. Crede hits down low in the order and for the most part Uribe does too. They don't expect the same level of offense from Crede/Uribe as Konerko and Everett. They are going to give this more time, and make a move accordingly. But I don't think it'll happen for several weeks. And when it does, I see 2nd tier prospects being traded. Sorry, that post makes too much sense to count in this thread. Automatically disqualified by Jabroni and southsideirish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) I will go a step further, Crede and Uribe are here primarily because they play very good defense. Makes sense when you build the team around pitching. Since Konerko and Everett are proven hitters, the offensive expectations are greater for them than Crede and Uribe, and they should be. Crede hits down low in the order and for the most part Uribe does too. They don't expect the same level of offense from Crede/Uribe as Konerko and Everett. They are going to give this more time, and make a move accordingly. But I don't think it'll happen for several weeks. And when it does, I see 2nd tier prospects being traded. I have this sneaking suspicion that KW didnt imagine that Crede would be hitting 230 something when he had this thoughts of this season. I still remember when we were all upset with Royce Clayton(the defensive wiz would couldnt hit) and his 250's BA. He would be a hitting dynamo with this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Is Crede underpeforming just in two months. Or does this underpeformance go back further? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To answer your question, he's been underperforming offensively for most of his ML career. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying ... over and over. Look at what KW and Guillen have said. They will show faith in these players. If move needs to be made, they'll wait until later on. They want to see where the offense stands with Frank Thomas in it. Guillen has repeatedly said how important pitching and defense are. Crede brings the defense and team chemistry is good and for the umpteenth time it's highly doubtful they trade a 27 yr. old guy they control for a 35 yr. old on a 1 yr. deal who has been less than durable. Some of you guys look at numbers, come to a conclusion, and that's that. There are many other factors, most if not all of which have been explained in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:31 PM) LOL. No, Cruddy has just sucked this season and this season alone. I'm tired of hearing that we're making "knee-jerk" reactions because we're jumping on Crede. He has always sucked for as long as I've known who he was! f*** Crede! f*** Crede! f*** Crede! I've never hated a Sox player as much as I hate Crede. And I do hate him. Before anybody says that I'm letting my anger cloud my judgment, I only hate him because he sucks. I don't think he sucks because I hate him. Ahh, now I feel better. Edited May 31, 2005 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) I will go a step further, Crede and Uribe are here primarily because they play very good defense. Makes sense when you build the team around pitching. Since Konerko and Everett are proven hitters, the offensive expectations are greater for them than Crede and Uribe, and they should be. Crede hits down low in the order and for the most part Uribe does too. They don't expect the same level of offense from Crede/Uribe as Konerko and Everett. They are going to give this more time, and make a move accordingly. But I don't think it'll happen for several weeks. And when it does, I see 2nd tier prospects being traded. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see it happening in approximately one month (early July). Kenny usually strikes well before the trade deadline. He acquired Everett and Alomar on July 1, 2003 and he traded for Freddy Garcia on June 28, 2004. I guarantee that he won't just sit around and watch Cruddy continue to suck until the deadline. Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 31, 2005 -> 08:34 PM) Uribe is more of a second baseman, I can't begin to express how much I disagree with this. Uribe has been a Godsend to a position that was mucked up consistently by Jose E-6 Valentin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 I have this sneaking suspicion that KW didnt imagine that Crede would be hitting 230 something when he had this thoughts of this season. I still remember when we were all upset with Royce Clayton(the defensive wiz would couldnt hit) and his 250's BA. He would be a hitting dynamo with this team. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now you are touching on something very important, the chemistry factor. Impact of Royce Clayton vs. Joe Crede, discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ May 31, 2005 -> 01:33 PM) I will go a step further, Crede and Uribe are here primarily because they play very good defense. Makes sense when you build the team around pitching. Since Konerko and Everett are proven hitters, the offensive expectations are greater for them than Crede and Uribe, and they should be. Crede hits down low in the order and for the most part Uribe does too. They don't expect the same level of offense from Crede/Uribe as Konerko and Everett. They are going to give this more time, and make a move accordingly. But I don't think it'll happen for several weeks. And when it does, I see 2nd tier prospects being traded. In almost every category I can check, Uribe is at best mediocre when it comes to defense. His fielding percentage is .966, towards the lower 3rd of MLB SS's right now. His range factor is 4.46, putting him in the lower half of MLB. He's committed 7 errors already this season. For comparison...Vizquel has 3, Clayton has 4, etc. That's in the lower 3rd of MLB. Uribe is not yet an excellent defensive shortstop. With time at the position, he may become one, but he's not yet one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(ISF @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:39 PM) I can't begin to express how much I disagree with this. Uribe has been a Godsend to a position that was mucked up consistently by Jose E-6 Valentin. That was someone that I am so glad we didnt keep. Jose "Stone Hands" Valentin aka Pedro Cerrano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 And PK has shown that he has slumped before badly too and that he can't carry an offense like many people want to believe(which is what we have him trying to do now). Ozuna is the only true SS on this team. Uribe is more of a second baseman, hence KW not really going after a 2B unless it was Iguchi. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wrong again. Ozuna is a 2nd baseman by trade. Uribe is a SS by trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(ISF @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:39 PM) I can't begin to express how much I disagree with this. Uribe has been a Godsend to a position that was mucked up consistently by Jose E-6 Valentin. He DOES lead the league in sacrafice flies.....I just wish he wasnt such a streaky hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:41 PM) He DOES lead the league in sacrafice flies.....I just wish he wasnt such a streaky hitter. We knew that coming into this season though. I love Juan and I'm happy we have him, it's hard to find a young shortstop like him with that kind of glove and he's definitely a streaky hitter but by the end of the year, he'll hit 20-25 homers batting around .270-.280. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 I see it happening in approximately one month (early July). Kenny usually strikes well before the trade deadline. He acquired Everett and Alomar on July 1, 2003 and he traded for Freddy Garcia on June 28, 2004. I guarantee that he won't just sit around and watch Cruddy continue to suck until the deadline. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Completely agree he won't sit around, he never does. I think you'd be looking at an addition though, vs. moving a starting position player. A "pesky" bat would be a big plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) I will go a step further, Crede and Uribe are here primarily because they play very good defense. Makes sense when you build the team around pitching. Since Konerko and Everett are proven hitters, the offensive expectations are greater for them than Crede and Uribe, and they should be. Crede hits down low in the order and for the most part Uribe does too. They don't expect the same level of offense from Crede/Uribe as Konerko and Everett. They are going to give this more time, and make a move accordingly. But I don't think it'll happen for several weeks. And when it does, I see 2nd tier prospects being traded. The most likely upgrade I foresee is a SS/3B utility type like Polanco. I think he's the best bet. I'd also be happy if we got Mackowiak from the Pirates. I think he could add a lot to this team. I'm not sure if he can do SS/3B, but if he can play 2B, I'm sure he can play 3B at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) Completely agree he won't sit around, he never does. I think you'd be looking at an addition though, vs. moving a starting position player. A "pesky" bat would be a big plus. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay, but if he adds a 3rd baseman and doesn't move Crede, won't it be for an improvement at 3rd base? And if he trades for an improvement over Crede, do you think that player won't be starting over Crede or at least platooning with him? It's not like Kenny is going to trade for a 3rd baseman that is worse than Crede. Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:40 PM) In almost every category I can check, Uribe is at best mediocre when it comes to defense. His fielding percentage is .966, towards the lower 3rd of MLB SS's right now. His range factor is 4.46, putting him in the lower half of MLB. He's committed 7 errors already this season. For comparison...Vizquel has 3, Clayton has 4, etc. That's in the lower 3rd of MLB. Uribe is not yet an excellent defensive shortstop. With time at the position, he may become one, but he's not yet one. This is another reason I don't like defensive stats as much as some around here, with defense especially you have to watch the player play to make a correct assessment of that players ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Wrong again. Ozuna is a 2nd baseman by trade. Uribe is a SS by trade. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They both are, Ozuna came up as a SS and that's his natural position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.