The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[Brian]

OK, if we can get Aaron Hill.  Do it.  That guy is a SUPERSTAR.

 

How's Konerko, Anderson and BMac sound Toronto?  Bad?  Yeah.  I thought so.

 

Can we proclaim a guy a superstar after only a few weeks?

[Kalapse]

Can we proclaim a guy a superstar after only a few weeks?

Not only can we do that but appearantly we can do it to lesser players.

[Southside hitmen]

I believe D Lee sign an extension in the beginning of the season

[Rowand44]

I believe D Lee sign an extension in the beginning of the season

That was Aramis.

[Dam8610]

Has anyone else heard the rumor about Capuano?

[Jabroni]

Has anyone else heard the rumor about Capuano?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope. He's young, cheap, and good. Why would the Brewers trade him?

[daa84]

anyone else hear on teh score today i believe offman mentioned that schmidt is absolutely not a possibility and the sox cant take on that contract. he did say that he had heard, i thought i heard him say that even kenny williams dropped lidges name as someone they were targetting, but that would happen only if houston felt he was not part of their rebuilding process. i would love lidge in our pen, anyone else hear this?

[SoxFan1]

2.  Brad Lidge/Roy Oswalt/Morgan Ensberg.  I don't think any of these guys will be dealt.  And even if Lidge is, he would only be our fourth or fifth best reliever, behind Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, and possibly even Marte.  Check his game by game stats.  He give up hits most appearances and runs far too often.

Dumbass....look at your boy Damaso walking the 1st guy he see's. Wow, then he get's a lucky DP against DLee.... :headshake If your seriously think Cotts is better than Lidge....

Edited June 26, 2005 by SoxFan1

[Kalapse]

Dumbass....look at your boy Damaso walking the 1st guy he see's. Wow, then he get's a lucky DP against DLee.... :headshake If your seriously think Cotts is better than Lidge....

He got Neifi Perez to hit into a DP. D.Lee hit a line drive single off the wall in left field.

[VAfan]

Dude your crazy, Lidge would easily become our best reliever and kick Hermanson out of the closers role.. He has a 2.73 ERA and K's batters at an alarming rate

 

I think ERA is almost useless to evaluate a relief pitcher. And it doesn't matter to me how many strike outs he gets if he's a closer and starts innings himself.

 

To me the way to value a relief pitcher, beyond saves for a closer, is the percentage of his appearances where he holds opponents scoreless. In my brief look at this, Lidge didn't perform any better than Neal Cotts or Cliff Politte, and he was worse than Hermanson.

 

(But if ERA obsesses you, then Lidge's 2.73 is also worse than those three guys and only scarcely better than Marte's 2.81.)

[VAfan]

Dumbass....look at your boy Damaso walking the 1st guy he see's. Wow, then he get's a lucky DP against DLee.... :headshake If your seriously think Cotts is better than Lidge....

 

If you noticed, I ranked Marte fourth in our pen. I think he may have the best pure stuff, but he hasn't harnessed it.

 

I wouldn't trade the farm just to get a reliever who would our fourth best. Just watch Neal Cotts develop. This kid is going to be great. The Sox need some guys who we develop like that instead of just drooling over guys on other teams.

[VAfan]

Julio Lugo may be just as good for this year and even better in subsequent years.  He may not have the postseason experience like Omar but has better numbers this year and almost certainly will next year as Omar's age catches up to him.  Lugo is 29 and a 5 year veteran.  It appears as if he's finally stopped swinging for the fences and realizes the type of player he is. 

 

I looked up Lugo. What worries me is the number of errors he makes. 25 last year. Reminiscent of Valentin. 13 this year v. Uribe's 8. He's worth considering, but I don't think with the kind of team we have that we can afford to start weakening the infield defense, and even though Lugo has a higher RF # than Uribe, we can't afford errors. Today a Konerko error cost Garland an unearned run and prevented us from bunting in the 9th after Perez drew a leadoff walk.

[Kalapse]

I think ERA is almost useless to evaluate a relief pitcher.  And it doesn't matter to me how many strike outs he gets if he's a closer and starts innings himself.

 

To me the way to value a relief pitcher, beyond saves for a closer, is the percentage of his appearances where he holds opponents scoreless.  In my brief look at this, Lidge didn't perform any better than Neal Cotts or Cliff Politte, and he was worse than Hermanson. 

 

(But if ERA obsesses you, then Lidge's 2.73 is also worse than those three guys and only scarcely better than Marte's 2.81.)

You only looked at Lidge's numbers for this season. Take a look at the past 2.

[AirScott]

VAfan, did you happen to catch any of last year's playoffs? Lidge would come in and nail the game down in the 7th inning. he's given up a few more runs and hits than he normally would, but he's struck out 52 in 33 innings. put him on a winning team (as he was last year), and he won't let you down.

[CWSGuy406]

Lilly:

 

vs. Left: .358 

vs. Right: .252

Day: 10.03 

Night: 5.31 

Current Month: 3.46 

 

:puke

 

Those are stats from this year. Composed of what, 15-20 starts? Mercy...

 

Off the top of my head, Lilly is right around a career 4.00 ERA pitcher. His ERA+ has been right around league average. For the right price, he's the guy this team needs. Cheat and Jim (among others) have been calling it for months, we need a swingman who can fill in for the fifth starter's role, and help us in the 'pen.

[Frankensteiner]

Those are stats from this year.  Composed of what, 15-20 starts?  Mercy...

 

Off the top of my head, Lilly is right around a career 4.00 ERA pitcher.  His ERA+ has been right around league average.  For the right price, he's the guy this team needs.  Cheat and Jim (among others) have been calling it for months, we need a swingman who can fill in for the fifth starter's role, and help us in the 'pen.

 

Christ guys, Lilly has a 6.00+ ERA, why are we even talking about him? I was hoping his latest s***-tastic start would put it to rest, but guess not.

[CWSGuy406]

Christ guys, Lilly has a 6.00+ ERA, why are we even talking about him? I was hoping his latest s***-tastic start would put it to rest, but guess not.

 

Did you read the first line of my post at all?

 

Sheesh, I guess 15 starts makes a f***ing career...

[Frankensteiner]

Did you read the first line of my post at all?

 

Sheesh, I guess 15 starts makes a f***ing career...

 

It's also retarded to assume a player will automatically return to his norm throughout the course of a season (there are always variations, whether from injury or a number of other reasons). So regardless of what you may think of Lilly going forward, at this point he's no better than an inexperienced McCarthy or El Duque missing an arm.

 

What's the point of making a move and HOPING that it may work out? Wouldn't you want a sure thing?

[Guest JimH]

It's also retarded to assume a player will automatically return to his norm throughout the course of a season (there are always variations, whether from injury or a number of other reasons). So regardless of what you may think of Lilly going forward, at this point he's no better than an inexperienced McCarthy or El Duque missing an arm.

 

What's the point of making a move and HOPING that it may work out? Wouldn't you want a sure thing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What's a sure thing?

 

Any pitcher could develop arm problems or mechanical problems at a moments notice. Lilly is not the greatest thing since sliced bread but he was an All Star last year and he's gotten much better in June, his trend is better.

 

There's no such thing as a sure thing. That's why the advance scouts have to analyze the guy's performance and make recommendations.

[AirScott]

It's also retarded to assume a player will automatically return to his norm throughout the course of a season (there are always variations, whether from injury or a number of other reasons). So regardless of what you may think of Lilly going forward, at this point he's no better than an inexperienced McCarthy or El Duque missing an arm.

 

What's the point of making a move and HOPING that it may work out? Wouldn't you want a sure thing?

Lilly would come in and be a spot-starter/long relief guy, pitching when El Duque needs another days rest and when a starter is forced to leave before the 5th or 6th. B-Mac doesn't look ready, so Lilly is a sure enough thing. it's not like we're asking him to come in and hope he returns to All-Star form to save our rotation or anything.

 

ONE LAST POINT: another thing, it is a little far-fetched to excpet to be able to pick up a sure thing. yeah, it would be nice to be able to trade for Roy Halladay and send El Duque to a spot-starter/long reliever's role, but, honestly, I just don't see that happening.

Edited June 27, 2005 by AirScott

[BigSqwert]

Why would Toronto even want to get rid of Lilly? He isn't making a whole lot of money. It would make little sense. And talk about the least exciting move KW can make. I know there are no sure things but the one sure thing is this guy won't get any fans excited. Why not get someone that strikes fear in the opponents clubhouse?

 

Lets pick up Robbie Alomar again while we're at it.

Edited June 27, 2005 by BigSqwert

[AirScott]

Why would Toronto even want to get rid of Lilly?  He isn't making a whole lot of money.  It would make little sense.  And talk about the least exciting move KW can make.  I know there are no sure things but the one sure thing is this guy won't get any fans excited.  Why not get someone that strikes fear in the opponents clubhouse?

 

Lets pick up Robbie Alomar again while we're at it.

every move doesn't have to be a blockbuster. Lilly would just be a small piece of the puzzle, and just because he isn't making a bunch of money doesn't mean a guy won't be traded. it's not like he's making the minimum and on pace to win 15 games.

[BigSqwert]

every move doesn't have to be a blockbuster.  Lilly would just be a small piece of the puzzle, and just because he isn't making a bunch of money doesn't mean a guy won't be traded.  it's not like he's making the minimum and on pace to win 15 games.

 

If Toronto wants to rebuild why would they get rid of a guy that they are paying little for? Especially if he's such a solid pitcher.

 

I just don't see this as a very appealing trade possibility. Just another guy that we hope can get it done. I'd rather go for a guy that more than likely will get it done. But that's just me.

 

KW has done a great job putting this team together. I trust that he will make the right move(s) to ensure we field a champion calibre team for the stretch.

Edited June 27, 2005 by BigSqwert

[CWSGuy406]

It's also retarded to assume a player will automatically return to his norm throughout the course of a season (there are always variations, whether from injury or a number of other reasons). So regardless of what you may think of Lilly going forward, at this point he's no better than an inexperienced McCarthy or El Duque missing an arm.

 

What's the point of making a move and HOPING that it may work out? Wouldn't you want a sure thing?

 

It's retarted to think a player will return to his norms?

 

Really?

 

Then, if the opportunity came up to trade Joe Borchard and Luis Vizcaino for Aubrey Huff, should we not do it 'cause he's only hitting .248?

 

I personally think it's more retarted (sp?) to judge a player off of 15 starts rather than the rest of his career. And if he is injured --which he could be -- then of course I'm not suggesting we trade for him. But, didn't he just throw a seven inning, 10 K game? That doesn't seem like an injured guy to me.

 

 

Big sqwert, where else are we supposed to upgrade? The only spot really is bullpen, or another starter (third-base, too). And (most likely) the price is very high for a SP. Plus, I can't think that the organization has already given up on El Duque. When he pitched healthy, he pitched well for where he's at in the rotation -- the fourth spot.

Edited June 27, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[BigSqwert]

Big sqwert, where else are we supposed to upgrade?  The only spot really is bullpen, or another starter (third-base, too).  And (most likely) the price is very high for a SP.  Plus, I can't think that the organization has already given up on El Duque.  When he pitched healthy, he pitched well for where he's at in the rotation -- the fourth spot.

 

I would try to get a guy like Baez from Tampa or Guardado from Seattle. Chavez would be a nice addition but I don't see Crede getting traded this year.