santo=dorf Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Cliff Politte is worthy of an all-star consideration, but I'm afraid Francona is going to be too biased when selecting set-up men. I have seen both Yankee and Blow Sox fans say Mike Timlin is worthy of an All-Star selection. Why no love for Politte? Timlin: IP: 37.1 W-L: 2-1 ERA: 1.21 WHIP: 1.21 OPP BA: .261 OPS against: .648 K/9: 6.03 Inherited runners-Inherited runners scored: 14-9 Politte: IP: 29.1 W-L: 5-0 ERA: 1.23 WHIP: .716 OPP BA: .135 OPS against: .412 K/9: 9.51 Inherited runners-Inherited runners scored: 24-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 you need to be otherworldly to get the nod as a middle reliever. politte's not going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 The WHIP, BAA and Inherited runners scored are decisevly one sided. You have to take stock into inherited runners scored when judging a middle reliever, it shows if they are getting the job done in clutch situations. The clutch stat for hitters is BAw/RISP&2outs for pitchers it's inherited runners scored. 24-4 is ridiculous, that is a very dominate reliever. 14-9 is piss poor, hell just seeing that he's only come in with 14 runners on base shows me that they may not have confidence in him to get batters out with runners on. Politte is deserving of an All-Star spot, along with Hermanson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I'm just glad that Politte has turned into one of the best set-up men/middle relievers in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Just take a look at Tom Gordon's pre All-Star game numbers from last year when he was an Allstar. IP: 50.2 W-L: 2-3 ERA: 1.78 WHIP: 0.83 OPP BA: 1.61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 12:08 PM) you need to be otherworldly to get the nod as a middle reliever. politte's not going. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who else strikes you as being a better middle reliever? Jesse Crain? Crain: IP: 34.2 W-L: 6-0 ERA: 1.04 WHIP: .865 OPP BA: .183 OPS against: .462 K/9: 3.38 Inherited runners-Inherited runners scored: 19-5 Politte: IP: 29.1 W-L: 5-0 ERA: 1.23 WHIP: .716 OPP BA: .135 OPS against: .412 K/9: 9.51 Inherited runners-Inherited runners scored: 24-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 he has been one of the more dominant setup man in the game lately, but the same could be said for jesse crain of the twins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 12:17 PM) Just take a look at Tom Gordon's pre All-Star game numbers from last year when he was an Allstar. IP: 50.2 W-L: 2-3 ERA: 1.78 WHIP: 0.83 OPP BA: 1.61 if torre wasn't picking the team, he wouldn't have gone. jeter wouldn't have half of his all-star appearances if not for torre. and as someone mentioned further down, if any middle reliever should go, it should be crain. BUT, what starter/closer are you leaving home to take politte? Edited June 27, 2005 by jerseysox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Politte > Crain, Timlin, Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Aaron Gleeman doesn't think so, oh and he doesn't think Jon Garland is an All - Star either; STARTING PITCHER: Roy Halladay* Johan Santana Mark Buehrle Randy Johnson Kenny Rogers Bartolo Colon Matt Clement Normally I'd go with last season's Cy Young winner as the All-Star game starter, especially given my oft-stated appreciation for Johan Santana (112.0, 3.78), but he has struggled this year and the Cy Young winner from 2003, Roy Halladay (122.0, 2.51), has been the best pitcher in the league. Mark Buehrle (116.0, 2.48) is the other no-brainer pick to fill out the starting staff. Just as it'll take more than three mediocre months to convince me that a Hall of Famer like Randy Johnson (103.0, 4.02) isn't an All-Star, it'll take more than three good months to convince me that a previously mediocre pitcher like Jon Garland (100.2, 3.40) is a deserving All-Star. Setting aside his gaudy win-loss record, Garland hasn't been significantly better than Bartolo Colon (102.1, 2.99), Kenny Rogers (98.2, 2.46), Matt Clement (102.2, 3.33), Jarrod Washburn (94.0, 3.35), Freddy Garcia (103.0, 3.58), or Mike Mussina (100.1, 3.95)—all of whom have better track records. I wanted to go with Jeremy Bonderman as the AL's final starting pitcher, especially given the fact that I picked him as my "Breakout Pitcher of the Year" back in March, but he has really only been pitching at an All-Star level for about six months (the last three months of 2004, plus the first three months of 2005). Like Inge (and Wilson last year), if Bonderman is pitching this well next June, he is an easy selection. If his career plays out like I think it will, he'll make plenty of All-Star teams. RELIEF PITCHER: Mariano Rivera Francisco Rodriguez B.J. Ryan Eddie Guardado Given the small number of innings involved, there are always going to be a lot of relievers having great first halves, which is why the 75%-25% rule is particularly relevant. Should guys like Mike Timlin (35.1, 1.27), Dustin Hermanson (29.1, 1.53), Jesse Crain (34.2, 1.04), Huston Street (34.0, 1.59), and Cliff Politte (28.1, 1.27) really be All-Stars based on 30 good innings of relief? Put it this way: No one thought of those guys as All-Stars before this year, so why should 30 measly innings change that? Let Crain and Street do it for another year or two, and then we can talk. I stick with bullpen studs like B.J. Ryan (34.2, 1.82), Mariano Rivera (27.2, 0.98), and Francisco Rodriguez (26.0, 2.77), who are having excellent 2005 seasons and have established their dominance in past years. Any number of relievers with solid track records would be worthy choices for the last bullpen spot, but I went with Eddie Guardado (27.0, 1.67) over Arthur Rhodes (29.2, 0.91) in a coin-flip situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 12:30 PM) if torre wasn't picking the team, he wouldn't have gone. jeter wouldn't have half of his all-star appearances if not for torre. and as someone mentioned further down, if any middle reliever should go, it should be crain. BUT, what starter/closer are you leaving home to take politte? Look at the stats. Why should Crain go over Politte? Because he has 1 more win or because he has 5.1 more innings or is it that his ERA is 9 points lower (ERA is very overrated for relief pitchers)? Politte is on a better team, he has a lower BAA, lower WHIP, lower OPSA, and a higher K/9. Not to mention the fact that Politte has inherited 5 more runners than Crain and Politte has had 1 less runner score. Politte is more deserving than Crain...period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 01:52 PM) Aaron Gleeman doesn't think so, oh and he doesn't think Jon Garland is an All - Star either; He's going strickly by past performance and reprutation. That's f***ing stupid the All-Star game is supposed to recognize the best players of the current season, not what they did in past seasons. I can't believe he has Mariano Rivera on the All-Star team, Gleeman has lost a lot of respect from me, not that I had much for him to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Anyone else see Peter Gammons mention how Timlin should be an all-star last night? Anyone know his e-mail address so I can show him the stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsox08 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Politte 29.1 IP, 5 wins, 31ks, 7 holds, 1.23 era, .72 whip Timlin 37.1 IP, 2 wins, 25ks, 13 holds, 1.21 era, 1.21 whip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly8509CWS Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 12:57 PM) He's going strickly by past performance and reprutation. That's f***ing stupid the All-Star game is supposed to recognize the best players of the current season, not what they did in past seasons. I can't believe he has Mariano Rivera on the All-Star team, Gleeman has lost a lot of respect from me, not that I had much for him to begin with. Thats absolute bulls***, since when is the All Star game supposed to be based on reputation? Should Giambi be an All-Star because he's a former MVP? It's stupid, Randy Johnson's numbers are average right now and Garland is way more deserving than three of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsox08 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 all star game= popularity contest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 You can't tell me Cliff Politte is our 8th inning guy. You can tell me that he sometimes pitches that inning or that he should be our guy in that spot but he isn't in that role constantly like a Tom Gordon of a year ago. Not saying its the wrong way to use him, but you won't make the all-star team by being shuffled through the 6-7-8 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Timlin will probably make it over Politte as he is a Red SOx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirScott Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 10:59 AM) Anyone else see Peter Gammons mention how Timlin should be an all-star last night? Anyone know his e-mail address so I can show him the stats? damn it I usually have a lot of respect for what Gammons says, but sometimes he is just too enthralled with the BoSox. click here to send him the stats, it's from his website, maybe he'll have to address it on air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) i truly believe that if cliff politte was a freaking brewer, none of us would care if he made the all-star team. and you know why? because he's a freaking middle reliever!!!! this is the ALL-STAR GAME. it's like putting a guy on the team because he's really, really good at sacrificing runners over. no one goes to games to see craig counsell move guys over, and no one goes to games to watch cliff politte pitch the 8th inning. let's move on. is cliff politte really good at what he does? f*** yeah. but he's not an all-star. Edited June 28, 2005 by jerseysox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) i truly believe that if cliff politte was a freaking brewer, none of us would care if he made the all-star team. and you know why? because he's a freaking middle reliever!!!! this is the ALL-STAR GAME. it's like putting a guy on the team because he's really, really good at sacrificing runners over. no one goes to games to see craig counsell move guys over, and no one goes to games to watch cliff politte pitch the 8th inning. let's move on. is cliff politte really good at what he does? f*** yeah. but he's not an all-star. Yes, Politte is an all-star. He is one of the best set-up men in the league. If the all-star game where the best 32 players or whatever, it would be mostly OFers and 1Bmen. Edited June 28, 2005 by Be Good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:51 PM) i truly believe that if cliff politte was a freaking brewer, none of us would care if he made the all-star team. and you know why? because he's a freaking middle reliever!!!! this is the ALL-STAR GAME. it's like putting a guy on the team because he's really, really good at sacrificing runners over. no one goes to games to see craig counsell move guys over, and no one goes to games to watch cliff politte pitch the 8th inning. let's move on. is cliff politte really good at what he does? f*** yeah. but he's not an all-star. Funny I always though the All-Star game was for the guys who did the best jobs at their respective positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:54 PM) Funny I always though the All-Star game was for the guys who did the best jobs at their respective positions. Who lied to you? The day the it was decided that the fans would choose the starters was the day that the All-Star game became a popularity contest based on name recognition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:58 PM) Who lied to you? The day the it was decided that the fans would choose the starters was the day that the All-Star game became a popularity contest based on name recognition. The fans don't choose the pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(AirScott @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:45 PM) damn it I usually have a lot of respect for what Gammons says, but sometimes he is just too enthralled with the BoSox. click here to send him the stats, it's from his website, maybe he'll have to address it on air. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks. Using my 93 characters, I asked him why Timlin is an ALl-Star over Cliff Politte considering Cliff has a much better BAA, WHIP, and K/9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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