Hurricane Katrina

[Balta1701]

My blood donation appointment is noon tomorrow.

[Heads22]

I'm donating my time today to volunteer at an American Cross blood drive, donate $50, then give some blood. Hopefully I can now be forgiven of being a huge cynical asshole.

 

 

Yup. Now you'll just be an asshole.

[southsider2k5]

The August Beige book is predicting that 400,000 or more people could be added to the unemployment rolls after Katrina, and subtract as much as one full point from economic growth figures

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/weather/090705...na_economy.html

[Heads22]

The August Beige book is predicting that 400,000 or more people could be added to the unemployment rolls after Katrina, and subtract as much as one full point from economic growth figures

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/weather/090705...na_economy.html

 

 

Would increased fuel costs and a newer reluctance for people to drive places have anything to do with that?

[southsider2k5]

Would increased fuel costs and a newer reluctance for people to drive places have anything to do with that?

 

I don't think that is factored in at all honestly. I believe this is all because of people who don't have jobs anymore, and the loss of productivity both because of the lost jobs and the diverting of resources to the afflicted area. From everything I have read, the elasticity of gasoline makes for a smallish reduction in consumption.

[Controlled Chaos]

TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

By Robert Tracinski

 

 

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

 

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

 

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

 

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

 

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.

 

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

 

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

 

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed; they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

 

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

 

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

 

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:

 

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

 

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

 

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets," she said. "They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will."

 

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

 

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

 

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

 

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America . "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

 

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

 

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

 

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

 

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

 

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

 

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

 

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans . And that is the story that no one is reporting.

 

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

 

There's a lot of truth in here. Many of these people have never cared to lift a finger to help themselves or their situation. I feel terrible for the good people that were caught up in the madness.

[Heads22]

I don't think that is factored in at all honestly.  I believe this is all because of people who don't have jobs anymore, and the loss of productivity both because of the lost jobs and the diverting of resources to the afflicted area.  From everything I have read, the elasticity of gasoline makes for a smallish reduction in consumption.

 

 

Okey doke. You're the nerd to ask.

[southsider2k5]

Bush is set to ask Congress for another $51.8 billion in aid for Katrina. It is estimated that FEMA is spending $1-2 billion A DAY in aid right now. Estimates are also being put at $150-200 billion to pay for this disaster.

[Soxy]

Bush is set to ask Congress for another $51.8 billion in aid for Katrina.  It is estimated that FEMA is spending $1-2 billion A DAY in aid right now.  Estimates are also being put at $150-200 billion to pay for this disaster.

Was the foreign aid accepted or no? I'm having a brain lapse.

[southsider2k5]

Was the foreign aid accepted or no? I'm having a brain lapse.

I haven't read anything about that.

[Goldmember]

just an fyi that the bob & tom show along with peyton manning are having an online auction tomorrow 7am-12pm (central) benefitting katrina victims. a bunch of really cool stuff is going to be auctioned off...

[Chisoxrd5]

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=.../07/216379.html

 

Officials to hand out a $2,000 debit card to each refugee (yes I know I'm being racist :rolly ) for food, gas, etc.

[tonyho7476]

I didn't read this whole thread...too long...but I donated $100 to my work, which was going to match employee contributions. We raised about $9000 (including the match), which isn't too bad for a company of 100 people.

 

And I gave $5 @ the Sox game last night...I think I'll donate again to the Red Cross in a couple weeks.

[Balta1701]

Was the foreign aid accepted or no? I'm having a brain lapse.

Well...yes, foreign aid has been "Accepted"...but hey...funny story...FEMA keeps screwing that up too. WaPo.

 

Since Hurricane Katrina, more than 90 countries and international organizations offered to assist in recovery efforts for the flood-stricken region, but nearly all endeavors remained mired yesterday in bureaucratic entanglements, in most cases, at the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

 

"FEMA? That was a lost case," said Mirit Hemy, an executive with the Netherlands-based New Skies Satellite who made the phone calls. "We got zero help, and we lost one week trying to get hold of them."

 

"As far as I know, it's still on the ground," said Claes Thorson, press counselor at the Swedish Embassy in Washington. He said that along with 20 other European Union nations that have pledged aid, "We are ready to send our things. We know they are needed, but what seems to be a problem is getting all these offers into the country."

 

So far, Thorson said, the State Department has denied Sweden's request for flight clearance. "We don't know exactly why, but we have a suspicion that the system is clogged on the receiving end," he said.

[Steff]

I didn't read this whole thread...too long...but I donated $100 to my work, which was going to match employee contributions.  We raised about $9000 (including the match), which isn't too bad for a company of 100 people.

 

And I gave $5 @ the Sox game last night...I think I'll donate again to the Red Cross in a couple weeks.

 

 

 

We just got an email from HR stating that $12K and 18 pallets of non-parishable had been donated... this after we already sent 4 trucks down to LSU and Houston, and one to DC.

[tonyho7476]

We just got an email from HR stating that $12K and 18 pallets of non-parishable had been donated... this after we already sent 4 trucks down to LSU and Houston, and one to DC. 

 

Now we're doing a collection of clothes, food, toiletries, etc. for a shelter in Tinley Park. I guess they are taking in people.

[Steff]

Now we're doing a collection of clothes, food, toiletries, etc. for a shelter in Tinley Park.  I guess they are taking in people.

 

 

There expects to be more than 8K people by the weekend in Illinois in shelters according to the RD people I volunteered with over the weekend.

[Balta1701]

At a news conference, [Nancy] Pelosi, D-Calif., said Bush's choice for head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency had "absolutely no credentials."

 

She related that she had urged Bush at the White House on Tuesday to fire Michael Brown.

 

"He said 'Why would I do that?'" Pelosi said.

 

"'I said because of all that went wrong, of all that didn't go right last week.' And he said 'What didn't go right?'"

(emphasis mine)

 

AP.

Edited September 7, 2005 by Balta1701

[southsider2k5]

The situation on the ground seems to still be pretty bad... People trying to fix cellphone towers are being shot at, a report got robbed and shot, and someone else is being charged with shooting a military rescue helicopter.

 

http://www.nbc5.com/news/4943362/detail.ht...317&dppid=65192

[Balta1701]

Bush is set to ask Congress for another $51.8 billion in aid for Katrina.  It is estimated that FEMA is spending $1-2 billion A DAY in aid right now.  Estimates are also being put at $150-200 billion to pay for this disaster.

Quick point.

 

$150-200 billion to pay for this disaster.

 

$1-2 billion 5 years ago to start upgrading the levees.

 

Ignore the loss of lives and just think like an American taxpayer...this is where tax cuts can really hurt you...you cut back in spending in places where you really need it. And the bills can get a lot larger down the road.

[southsider2k5]

Quick point.

 

$150-200 billion to pay for this disaster.

 

$1-2 billion 5 years ago to start upgrading the levees.

 

Ignore the loss of lives and just think like an American taxpayer...this is where tax cuts can really hurt you...you cut back in spending in places where you really need it.  And the bills can get a lot larger down the road.

 

How much it would have saved is debatable. The original intent was to always secure the levees to withhold a category 3 storm, it was decided in either 97 or 98 I believe that it wouldn't be cost effective to try to make the levees secure for a category 5 storm. I wonder what the difference would have been, because the basic underlying problems still would have exisisted, and that is the incompetent response of every layer of government in this disaster.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Quick point.

 

$150-200 billion to pay for this disaster.

 

$1-2 billion 5 years ago to start upgrading the levees.

 

Ignore the loss of lives and just think like an American taxpayer...this is where tax cuts can really hurt you...you cut back in spending in places where you really need it.  And the bills can get a lot larger down the road.

I've read that the number to upgrade the entire levee and pump system to withstand a Cat5 would have been more like $13 billion, but the point stands. Compared to $100+ billion, the need to rebuild the city AND upgrade the levee system anyway, and the phenomenal loss of life, it was a foolish gamble.

 

One of how many in this country?

[Steff]

How much it would have saved is debatable.  The original intent was to always secure the levees to withhold a category 3 storm, it was decided in either 97 or 98 I believe that it wouldn't be cost effective to try to make the levees secure for a category 5 storm.  I wonder what the difference would have been, because the basic underlying problems still would have exisisted, and that is the incompetent response of every layer of government in this disaster.

 

 

They already DID have the capasity to hold off a cat 3. The work, which stopped in early '04, from all that I read was doing upkeep. Not making them more sturdy.

[southsider2k5]

Space Shuttle flights might be delayed for a year, partially because of logistical problems from Katrina, partly because of exsisting problems.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9241242/

[Balta1701]

How much it would have saved is debatable.  The original intent was to always secure the levees to withhold a category 3 storm, it was decided in either 97 or 98 I believe that it wouldn't be cost effective to try to make the levees secure for a category 5 storm.  I wonder what the difference would have been, because the basic underlying problems still would have exisisted, and that is the incompetent response of every layer of government in this disaster.

When they judge something to be "cost-effective", do you think they judged it to be cost effective relative to how much extra tax dollars would have to be spent on the project, or do you think they judged whether or not it was cost-effective relative to the cost of rebuilding the entire city?

 

Somehow, I doubt that they judged it was cost-effective relative to the value of New Orleans.