Recruiting Thread

[whitesoxfan101]

Haha awesome.

 

I know just about anything I say is going to make me look like an asshole, but I'm sorry Illini fans. I know this is a huge blow, and there's nothing enjoyable about it. However, I hope you guys can still pull a solid class, and we've definitely got one solid rivalry on our hands now.

 

Why are you sorry? What did you do?

 

This is a case of Bruce Weber being a horrible recruiter (it's now official) and Gordon being pulled in a million different directions by a ton of people, including his own dad. He's a kid, and the fact these recruits are kids is why these sagas are often times so silly. The only thing in this situation that bothers me is Gordon, until literally yesterday, has been telling Illinois privately (and I actually do know this because of people I know, honestly) that he's a solid verbal for 3 months, and now the Illini are in a tough spot since LOI day is 3 weeks away here. The only people I have an issue with is Bruce Weber for sucking at recruiting, and Eric Gordon Sr. for being a media whore and lying for 3 months. In retrospect, I can't blame the kid, he was in a tough spot.

Edited October 13, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[nitetrain8601]

Brown was from Maywood. Its a suburb of Chicagoland. And Weber got Carlwell from the same school. Self did a great job getting Deron out of Texas and getting Dee. His other recruiting wins at Illinois were nothing special (unless you count Villanueva who didn't sign a LOI). Randle and McBride were from central Illinois, Illinois was the biggest school on their lists and they likely would have been Illini no matter what. Head wasn't a top 100 recruit. Blandon Ferguson was awful. Spears was a late decommit. Kyle Wilson wasn't top 100. Augustine was between Illinois and Purdue. Warren Carter wasn't a top 100 recruit. Weber needs to change his recruiting philosophy I agree, but Self was no recruiting god at Illinois.

 

Okay, Chicagoland area if you want to get technical, which Weber still can't recruit from. Spears came to the school and decomitted after one year with Weber IIRC.

 

As far as guys like Brian Randle, you have to be kidding me. Teams on his list were Illinois, Duke, Kansas, Michigan State, Notre Dame and Stanford. I guess schools like Duke aren't above Illinois. Warren Carter was a top 100 recruit. #83 according to scout.com.

[whitesoxfan101]

Nobody is allowed to defend Weber's recruiting now btw, he officially sucks. He also is on a 3 year clock to prove he can win with marginal recruits, or else he needs to be canned.

Edited October 13, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[whitesoxfan99]

Okay, Chicagoland area if you want to get technical, which Weber still can't recruit from. Spears came to the school and decomitted after one year with Weber IIRC.

 

As far as guys like Brian Randle, you have to be kidding me. Teams on his list were Illinois, Duke, Kansas, Michigan State, Notre Dame and Stanford. I guess schools like Duke aren't above Illinois. Warren Carter was a top 100 recruit. #83 according to scout.com.

 

Well I'm going back on my previous post. If Warren Carter counts as top 100 so do Jackson, Brock, and Tisdale for Weber since they have all appeared on top 100 lists.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Nobody is allowed to defend Weber's recruiting now btw, he officially sucks. He also is on a 3 year clock to prove he can win with marginal recruits, or else he needs to be canned.

 

god i love whitesoxfan101, he is my fav.

 

Two years removed from a national championship game and your highest recruit is #59 in the nation, when you should be pulling in Sherron Collins. KU loses to sisters of the poor two years in a rwo and still pulls out recruits from Weber's backyard.

 

Well I'm going back on my previous post. If Warren Carter counts as top 100 so do Jackson, Brock, and Tisdale for Weber since they have all appeared on top 100 lists.

 

 

top 100, that is so SIU of you...haha

 

The decision did not surprise Weber. At this point, nothing was going to surprise him. Disappoint him? Yes, of course, severely so. And it had to hurt.

 

thats a shock

[nitetrain8601]

Tell me all of the talented players from central Illinois in Weber's tenure. Livingston, Jamar, Cole, and ???. The talent from Illinois has been down big time. Making Weber's misses much worse than Self's. Self missed on Andre Iguodola, Dockery, Thompson, among others but still was able to get Dee and Augie. Besides if you are going to give credit to self for recruiting Head then Weber gets credit for Brock who was just as highly regarded as a recruit. Carlwell was a more highly regarded big man than anyone Self brought in. Pruitt is from the Chicagoland area as is McCamey.

 

I'm done discussing this.

 

Lol, you're done discussing because you're lying. Livingston, Scheyer, Wright, Frasor, McNeal, Collins, Will Walker, Jerome Randle, Rose, Koshwal(whom IL fans were raving about until he was lost), Even Turner, Brandon McGee. Keep in mind, these are all 4 star prospects or higher in Illionis during Weber's tenure here that he's lost.

 

The guy can't recruit in-state for crap.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

All top recruits should just verbal illinois, great way to drive up your recognition around the nation.

 

Great news, top ranked PF Greg Monroe just listed KU as final 3...sweet

[SleepyWhiteSox]

These are guys that Weber is losing to teams like Depaul.

 

DePaul is in the better conference, better city, with it's own rich history...I'm very excited about the direction my team seems to be heading with the positive (though quiet) buzz we've been getting as sleepers this year, and a very nice '07 recruiting class that can possibly get A LOT better with a certain recruit...

 

Been hearing nothing but good things about Coach Wainwright on the recruiting trails which has quickly payed dividends with the guys he's recently gotten...

 

And weber's recruiting deficiencies will hopefully aid Wainwright in continuing to recruit the Chicago area well. I would not have minded gordon going to illinois if it meant that it helped DePaul gain an edge in getting rose.

 

 

Yes, I'm still holding out hope for rose (fingers crossed). It's been said that DePaul has a better chance than expected. Personally, I feel that we're second behind memphis...

[nitetrain8601]

DePaul is in the better conference, better city, with it's own rich history...I'm very excited about the direction my team seems to be heading with the positive (though quiet) buzz we've been getting as sleepers this year, and a very nice '07 recruiting class that can possibly get A LOT better with a certain recruit...

 

Been hearing nothing but good things about Coach Wainwright on the recruiting trails which has quickly payed dividends with the guys he's recently gotten...

 

And weber's recruiting deficiencies will hopefully aid Wainwright in continuing to recruit the Chicago area well. I would not have minded gordon going to illinois if it meant that it helped DePaul gain an edge in getting rose.

Yes, I'm still holding out hope for rose (fingers crossed). It's been said that DePaul has a better chance than expected. Personally, I feel that we're second behind memphis...

 

Well, I didn't mean to insult DePaul, but they had a crappy year last year with some very big losses to horrible teams, with a new coach and they've been able to steal guys left and right. With the way DePaul's recruiting, I would've thought they went to the National Championship game two years ago, not Illinois.

[IlliniKrush]

He's going to IU, and everyone knows it.

I hate being right.

 

I only wish Gordon could have handled this better, regardless of where he ended up. The Gordon's handled this extremely poorly.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Well, I didn't mean to insult DePaul, but they had a crappy year last year with some very big losses to horrible teams, with a new coach and they've been able to steal guys left and right.

 

Agreed. Some of the losses were bad, but we also had one of the toughest schedules in the country, and we lost to some quality teams that may not be very hyped (Bradley and Bucknell). There were also some very good wins last season that give hope for this season.

 

Can't wait for this season. I like Coach Wainwright's scheduling as he doesn't fill up on cupcakes...

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Agreed. Some of the losses were bad, but we also had one of the toughest schedules in the country, and we lost to some quality teams that may not be very hyped (Bradley and Bucknell). There were also some very good wins last season that give hope for this season.

 

Can't wait for this season. I like Coach Wainwright's scheduling as he doesn't fill up on cupcakes...

 

 

They would not be hyped if it were not for us.

[GaelicSoxFan]

I hate being right.

 

I only wish Gordon could have handled this better, regardless of where he ended up. The Gordon's handled this extremely poorly.

It sure does look like Sampson is up to his old tricks again. Just because it is legal in the NCAA's eyes doesn't mean it's clean.

 

I wonder if he has a picture of Jim Harrick in his office.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

They would not be hyped if it were not for us.

 

lol

 

I'll be there cheering on my Demons against kansas.

 

 

And as I've said, not an easy schedule...

 

11/11 at Bradley

11/14 at Northwestern

11/17 Eastern Illinois

11/20 vs. Kentucky - EA Sports Maui Invitational

11/21 EA Sports Maui Invitational

11/22 EA Sports Maui Invitational

12/2 Kansas

12/6 Chicago State

12/9 at UAB

12/13 Wake Forest

12/16 at Rhode Island

12/20 UC Irvine

12/23 California

12/29 Northwestern State

1/3 at St. John's*

1/6 at Villanova*

1/10 Pittsburgh*

1/13 at Rutgers*

1/16 St. John's*

1/20 Louisville*

1/24 at Georgetown*

1/28 at West Virginia*

1/31 Connecticut*

2/3 at Syracuse*

2/8 Notre Dame*

2/14 Marquette*

2/17 at USF*

2/20 at Notre Dame*

2/24 Cincinnati*

3/3USF*

3/7 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

3/8 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

3/9 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

3/10 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

 

 

My apologies if this goes in the college b-ball thread...

[Jimbo's Drinker]

lol

 

I'll be there cheering on my Demons against kansas.

And as I've said, not an easy schedule...

 

11/11 at Bradley

11/14 at Northwestern

11/17 Eastern Illinois

11/20 vs. Kentucky - EA Sports Maui Invitational

11/21 EA Sports Maui Invitational

11/22 EA Sports Maui Invitational

12/2 Kansas

12/6 Chicago State

12/9 at UAB

12/13 Wake Forest

12/16 at Rhode Island

12/20 UC Irvine

12/23 California

12/29 Northwestern State

1/3 at St. John's*

1/6 at Villanova*

1/10 Pittsburgh*

1/13 at Rutgers*

1/16 St. John's*

1/20 Louisville*

1/24 at Georgetown*

1/28 at West Virginia*

1/31 Connecticut*

2/3 at Syracuse*

2/8 Notre Dame*

2/14 Marquette*

2/17 at USF*

2/20 at Notre Dame*

2/24 Cincinnati*

3/3USF*

3/7 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

3/8 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

3/9 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

3/10 BIG EAST Conference Tournament

My apologies if this goes in the college b-ball thread...

 

you may be cheering them on, but that arena will be all jayhawks.....ku fan are all over chicago.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

you may be cheering them on, but that arena will be all jayhawks.....ku fan are all over chicago.

 

Yeah, most likely...but there's still a good number of DePaul faithful...

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Yeah, most likely...but there's still a good number of DePaul faithful...

 

I hope they are, but if they are smart they will sell their tickets to the flock.

[greasywheels121]

WH and I were talking about this, Weber kind of gets an unfair wrap in all of this.

 

When it came down to it, it wouldn't have made a big difference or mattered who was coaching at Illinois. The difference maker was the coach at Indiana. If Davis wasn't here last year, he probably would have never made a verbal to Illinois. However, Weber ends up taking the fall.

[Rowand44]

Yikes. I hate the Illini but I'd be pretty pissed if I was an U of I fan right now.

[whitesox61382]

It sure does look like Sampson is up to his old tricks again. Just because it is legal in the NCAA's eyes doesn't mean it's clean.

 

I wonder if he has a picture of Jim Harrick in his office.

 

While recruiting verbally committed players is frowned on, it isn't illegal. As others have pointed out, Gordon has always wanted to go to IU, but he didn't like MDavis and his coaching staff. If Sampson was at IU last year, Gordon would have never verballed to UI to begin with. Gordon was looking for an excuse to go to IU, and with Sampson on board it made for an easy choice(certainly doesn't mean that Sampson did something dirty). I do feel sorry for UI fans, because I honestly thought that Gordon was going to stick with his verbal despite everything, and that leaves them dry in regards to recruiting top players to fill Gordon's scholarship. For IU, if they can pull in Rose at this point(a bigger need then Gordon IMO with their need for a PG), than Sampson will pull off one of the biggest recruiting coups in years(considering that he took the job only a few months ago and Rose would give him a top 5 class). I still think Memphis will be hard to beat for Rose, but landing Gordon certainly helps their chances. I must say that I applauded the hiring of Sampson from day one(unlike most IU fans), and he is paying off big time.

[fathom]

Here's my thought on the Gordon sage: this isn't Sampson's fault. Gordon did nothing to try and prevent IU from recruiting him once Sampson took the job. Rather, it seems like Gordon Jr. loved the attention, and he felt like IU was a better fit for him. This isn't a scenario where someone like Coach K all of a sudden decided to recruit a player, and then he went after someone who had already verballed to a program. At the end of the day, Gordon Jr. wanted to go to IU and play for Sampson.

[Rex Hudler]

Oh man...the Crush is gonna have a field day with this one...that is, if IU comes to Champaign this year.

 

I hope the NCAA digs into this...personally, I think they should investigate every situation where a kid verbally commits to one school and ends up signing for another...but of course, they won't.

 

 

Why should they dig into anything? That makes no sense at all.

[Rex Hudler]

I think fathom, whitesox 61382, greasy and others have all made some good points but I feel the need to ramble.....

 

Until "we" stop glorifying 17-18 year old kids and the recruiting process changes, these things are going to happen. Yes the kids milk all the attention, but we certainly put them on a pedestal I am not sure many 17-yr olds are ready to handle emotionally. It is not a shock to see a kid change his mind.

 

Gordon's situation is pretty simple to see.

 

1. He committed to UI in a time where IU was not an option to him.

2. IU's situation changed, making a local kid wonder what the new situation will be like.

3. IU's assistant coaches are both Indiana natives and have ties to Gordon's father. There was immediate and natural connection to IU once Sampson and his staff were in place.

4. Since this has been played out in the media and the Internet, a 17-yr old kid has had pressure from every angle. Think about it: Everyone from teachers to coaches to friends to the media to strangers met in public had some kind of influence.

5. I am pretty confident in thinking that Eric's father had an influence in changing his mind. Parents can do that, and as parents have a right to.

6. While I began to think the longer this went on that he would end up at Illinois, it probably had the opposite effect. Imagine practically a whole state recruiting you, including the newspapers.

7. Once it became evident Gordon was looking at IU, none of this should be a surprise (nor would it have been if he stayed). The family never shut the door on the possibility of going to IU so you knew it was possible. Whether he "decommitted" or did what he did, Weber should have had Plan B scenarios working behind the scenes. In fact, I'd be shocked if he doesn't. That would be the biggest criticism I could have for Weber is if he were just sitting back with no backup plan.

8. Sampson did not hire coaches just to recruit one player. Both Coach Meyer and Coach McCallum are Indiana natives and have much experience as college coaches. Coach McCallum came from Oklahoma with Sampson and Coach Meyer was out of a job after Quinn Snyder got the boot. These hires were a no-brainer, with or without Eric Gordon.

9. I understand the idea that you do not recruit verbally committed players in basketball, but this situation was unique. I am willing to bet that Eric Gordon (or perhaps after his fater started the process) recruited IU to an extent as much as they did him. If the Gordon's shut Sampson down from Day 1, none of this happens today. So I don't think in this situation, you can blame the Indiana coaching staff. I would be very surprised if they make a habit of trying to poach verball committed players from other programs. There are exceptions to every rule and I feel comfortable that this was indeed one of those exceptions.

10. I know this sucks for Illini fans, but I have no doubt I would feel the same way if the situation were reversed. Not that I would like it, but I would understand it, without tossing accusations of unethical behavior.

11. I do agree that the Gordon family could have handled things better. I believe that a decision was just recently made. Hell, sometimes I can't decide what I want for dinner until the waitress is staring at me and everyone else at the table has ordered. I can't imagine having to make a decision that will drastically affect the next several years if not the rest of my life when people are pulling at me from all directions. Think of it as really liking one girl and proposing to her, and then another girl comes along that you really like. While you can only choose one, it doesn't mean you don't like both and are not conflicted in making the choice.

12. I think Gordon was hanging on to Illinois as long as he could not wanting to lose that option. Imagine if he "decommitted" as someone suggested and then Weber went and offered his scholarship to someone else, then he decided IU wasn't for him and UI had no room? Basically, by saying "as of today, I'm still commmitted to Illinois" he was basically using the Illini as a safety net until he knew for sure IU was the right move. Sure it's selfish, but it's human nature. He has to do what is best for him, not for everyone else. That's what we get when we hang the future of a program on the hat of one kid (I mean in recruiting generally, not specifically Illinois). Think about all the kids that have to wait to see where they will get offers from because they have to wait for the big dominos to fall first. The whole recruiting process is damned near out of hand, but I don't see it changing soon, so we all need to get used to it.

 

Okay, maybe it wasn't so simple. But....

 

The bottom line is that the Indiana - Illinois rivalry is going strong and will continue to do so. Recruiting is fun for all of us, but developing players and having some quality seniors seem to allow many teams to compete right up there with the superstar recruits. Illinois will be competitive regardless. I'll look forward to the battles.

[IlliniKrush]

7. Once it became evident Gordon was looking at IU, none of this should be a surprise (nor would it have been if he stayed). The family never shut the door on the possibility of going to IU so you knew it was possible. Whether he "decommitted" or did what he did, Weber should have had Plan B scenarios working behind the scenes. In fact, I'd be shocked if he doesn't. That would be the biggest criticism I could have for Weber is if he were just sitting back with no backup plan.

 

Tupper says:

 

So what happens now? Part of the problem for Weber is that many recruiting decisions have been made based on Gordon’s commitment 11 months ago. Other shooting guards have backed away, and some have been passed over, knowing Gordon would play every possible minute. So it’s impossible to instantly switch to Plan B.

[whitesoxfan101]

Agreed. Some of the losses were bad, but we also had one of the toughest schedules in the country, and we lost to some quality teams that may not be very hyped (Bradley and Bucknell). There were also some very good wins last season that give hope for this season.

 

Can't wait for this season. I like Coach Wainwright's scheduling as he doesn't fill up on cupcakes...

 

That DePaul team was weird. I saw them up close and personal lose to NIU out here, and you could see they had a ton of talent, but it looked very unorganized. Wainwright is recruiting well though, and he can coach, so they should improve a lot.

 

WH and I were talking about this, Weber kind of gets an unfair wrap in all of this.

 

How can you guys say that?? Weber has recruiting a lot of big time players, and has LOST EVERY TIME.

 

Livingston

Collins

Wright

Gordon

Rose

Scheyer

 

Bruce Weber is a BAD BAD recruiter. Great in game coach, but he doesn't have what it takes to close the deal recruiting, and you can't win the Kentucky Derby riding donkeys. Like I said, 3 year clock for Bruce starting now.

 

Oh, and why are Indiana fans defending themselves here? This disaster is a Bruce Weber production (with help from Gordon and his dad, but only to a certain extent) and Indiana did nothing wrong.