Who is the Best Young Pitcher in MLB?

[chitownsportsfan]

I forgot about Huston. Is he on the DL?

Edited June 23, 2006 by chitownsportsfan

[MHizzle85]

naw, he's 1-2...3.06 era...17 saves

[Chisoxfn]

I don't know if I'd take Z even now. Liriano is younger, a lefty, walks way less people, is just as unhittable when he does throw strikes (which is a lot more often), and isn't a raging lunatic.

Ya, but Zambrono has proven that he can handle a heavy workload, throw deep into games, and juts be an all around beast.

 

Liriano has yet to show me that he can go super deep into games and this is coming from someone that thinks Liriano is the best 1st-2nd year pitcher in the game.

 

Yep. I remember looking up his stats this past offseason and doing a doubletake. I looked them up to compare him to Buehrle, and I have to say--from the stats--Zambrano is the better pitcher. Could just be the weak ass NL though.

Watch him pitch, he's the most dominant pitcher in the bigs...along with Johan (although I take the 2nd half Johan's over anyone probably).

[hammerhead johnson]

I never realized how many studly young pitchers there were in the MLB right now. There are a ton!

 

Yep, and you know what else is crazy? These teams ain't got 'em:

 

New York Yankees

Boston Red Sox

Atlanta Braves

 

There are no up & coming stud-like SPs that are ready to contribute this year on these perennial playoff threats.

[rangercal]

Ya, but Zambrono has proven that he can handle a heavy workload, throw deep into games, and juts be an all around beast.

 

Liriano has yet to show me that he can go super deep into games and this is coming from someone that thinks Liriano is the best 1st-2nd year pitcher in the game.

Watch him pitch, he's the most dominant pitcher in the bigs...along with Johan (although I take the 2nd half Johan's over anyone probably).

someone with the label 'dominant' let alone 'one of the most dominant' does not have 60 walks in 105 innings. Zambrano does.

 

I'd like to add. I would take Z over anyone on our staff. I just worry about those walks. That can come back on you against the good teams. Keep in mind he IS in the NL.

[hammerhead johnson]

someone with the label 'dominant' let alone 'one of the most dominant' does not have 60 walks in 105 innings. Zambrano does.

 

Yeah, the walks have been his weakness, but he has a damn good WHIP ratio (1.26), ERA (2.83), and his BAA (.187) and K numbers (105) are just amazing.

[chitownsportsfan]

It's great that all the young pitching talent cannot be horded by the larger payroll teams. Nor, are they necessarily good at finding it.

 

Hopefully this continues to swing the balance towards the middle market but well managed teams--like the Sox last year.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yeah, it's a matter of opinion. I think the fact that Zambrano is a Cub also clouds the judgement of hella motherf***ers.

 

All I know: the dude is a no-hitter waiting to happen.

 

And you can't knock a guy for being fiery.

 

But you can knock him for being crazy, and it's a fine line. Also, I have no bias against Zambrano, he's the only Cub I don't have bias against since at least he has balls and goes out and does his thing every 5 days, no matter how he feels.

 

The other thing to remember besides the walks though is Liriano is doing his s*** this year against the AL, whereas Zambrano is pitching against those sorry ass NL bums (other than his start at The Cell, in which he wasn't spectacular by his standards and would have got the loss if Juan could throw from 2nd to 1st).

[whitesoxin']

Would you guys rather have a staff of solid proven veterans like we have now or young studs with unreal potential?

[whitesoxfan101]

Would you guys rather have a staff of solid proven veterans like we have now or young studs with unreal potential?

 

I'll take what we got now.....a stud young closer, a stud swing man in B-Mac, and a starting staff full of proven veteran horses. But I'd also take a few of the guys mentioned in this thread too if I could.

[hammerhead johnson]

The other thing to remember besides the walks though is Liriano is doing his s*** this year against the AL, whereas Zambrano is pitching against those sorry ass NL bums (other than his start at The Cell, in which he wasn't spectacular by his standards and would have got the loss if Juan could throw from 2nd to 1st).

 

Yeah, I hear you.

 

Team OPS Rankings

1. Toronto .850

2. Chicago .827

3. NY Yankees .822

4. Boston .820

5. Cleveland .812

6. Texas .805

7. Cincinatti .791

8. NY Mets .790

9. Los Angeles .788

10. Detroit .783

11. St. Louis .782

12. Milwaukee .777

13. Baltimore .756

14. Philadelphia .764

15. Colorado .763

 

St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Cincinatti are all in the Top 12, though. The NL Central is better than the AL West, hitting-wise. But in the end, the NL can't even begin to f*** with the AL in terms of offensive prowess.

[chitownsportsfan]

Well, the DH plays a large role. Although the NL is clearly the weaker league.

[Flash Tizzle]

Someday, Lance Broadway will be included in every list judging talented young pitchers. Right up there with Cesar Carillo and Matt Garza.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[knightni]

Bobby Jenks and Jon Papelbon are 25.

[CWSGuy406]

Someday, Lance Broadway will be included in every list judging talented young pitchers. Right up there with Cesar Carillo and Matt Garza.

 

Heh -- funny enough (or, probably not-so-funny in your case), Garza is absolutely dominating this year. Between two levels he's thrown just over 80 innings and has struck out 100, while only walking 24.

 

Hammerhead -- maybe I read you incorrectly, but did you say you'd take Big Z over any other pitcher in all of baseball? If so, Johan is standing on the street corner asking the question, "Why?"

 

BTW -- without going too far off-course here -- now that one of the better pitching classes in recent history has graduated (Billingsly, Cain, Verlander, Liriano, Weaver, Hamels, etc etc), who is the best pitching prospect in baseball as of this moment? I'm stealing this idea from the Baseball Analysts, BTW -- but you could make a case for former Sox farmhand Gio Gonzalez as the best [pitching] prospect in baseball right now. Phillip Hughes is probably right up there as well.

Edited June 23, 2006 by CWSGuy406

[Rowand44]

BTW -- without going too far off-course here -- now that one of the better pitching classes in recent history has graduated (Billingsly, Cain, Verlander, Liriano, Weaver, Hamels, etc etc), who is the best pitching prospect in baseball as of this moment? I'm stealing this idea from the Baseball Analysts, BTW -- but you could make a case for former Sox farmhand Gio Gonzalez as the best [pitching] prospect in baseball right now. Phillip Hughes is probably right up there as well.

I feel like I've heard this conversation before.

[qwerty]

someone with the label 'dominant' let alone 'one of the most dominant' does not have 60 walks in 105 innings. Zambrano does.

 

I'd like to add. I would take Z over anyone on our staff. I just worry about those walks. That can come back on you against the good teams. Keep in mind he IS in the NL.

 

 

I would personally consider nolan ryan pretty damn dominant even though he would walk 150 a season... he is even second of all time. He made up for all those walks by not letting anyone hit there way on, much like zambrano does.

 

Zambrano is as dominant as they come. He is the definition of effectively wild. The beautiful thing is his control should only get better... the only time his control was nearly this bad was his first time through the league (16 starts in 2002 he had 63 walks in 108 and 1/3 innings. I would be far more concerned with him if he was giving up hits at a higher rate... but a walk is always better than any type of hit. His baa is around .200 and his k/9 is the best of his career at 8.91

[RockRaines]

For future benefits? I'll buy that. But right now, at this very moment, Carlos Zambrano is the most unhittable pitcher in the major leagues, regardless of age.

eh, I would rather have several guys before him. But Liriano is already a better pitcher.

 

Liriano 7-1 2.17 1.06 WHIP .217 BAA

 

Zambrano 6-3 2.83 ERA 1.26 WHIP .191 BAA

 

According to your own opinion on pitchers, WHIP is the ultimate way to see who is the best arm. Well Liriano looks to be more dominant this year. He also plays in a much stronger Division, and is in the AL which usually adds a run to your ERA.

[Rowand44]

eh, I would rather have several guys before him. But Liriano is already a better pitcher.

 

Liriano 7-1 2.17 1.06 WHIP .217 BAA

 

Zambrano 6-3 2.83 ERA 1.26 WHIP .191 BAA

 

According to your own opinion on pitchers, WHIP is the ultimate way to see who is the best arm. Well Liriano looks to be more dominant this year. He also plays in a much stronger Division, and is in the AL which usually adds a run to your ERA.

This is also Liriano's first time around the league as a starter. Zambrano has proven for years now that he's just an unbelievable pitcher even though he's a psycho. Liriano is one hell of a talent but his numbers are sure to go up a bit once he pitches a little more.

[whitesoxfan101]

This is also Liriano's first time around the league as a starter. Zambrano has proven for years now that he's just an unbelievable pitcher even though he's a psycho. Liriano is one hell of a talent but his numbers are sure to go up a bit once he pitches a little more.

 

Also correct. IIRC, King Felix (other than W-L record, he got no run support) put up somewhat similar numbers to Liriano his first time around the league the 2nd half of last season, but he's struggled a bit this season.

[beautox]

Liriano, 4/5ths of the Marlins starting Rotation(Nolasco,Johnson,Willis,Olsen), Verlander, Cain

[chitownsportsfan]

King Felix got lit up againt last night, 11 hits in under 6 innings. I'm about to go over to USSMARINER and see what they think.

[Steve9347]

FRANSISCO LIRIANO

 

 

nuff said

Edited June 23, 2006 by Steve9347

[ZoomSlowik]

I really don't get how Hernandez is struggling this much. The guy has a great arm with some monster stuff. I could understand if he was walking a ton of guys, but his rate isn't that far above normal. After watching him last year, I wouldn't have thought that he'd have allowed 100 hits in 90 innings to this point.

 

Would you guys rather have a staff of solid proven veterans like we have now or young studs with unreal potential?

 

Well, I'll go with the cop-out answer and say a mix of both. I don't think you can take a staff entirely made of young studs because they're likely to be a little less dependable and more erratic in their performance. On the other hand, if you take a staff that has several solid but not dominant veteran starters you're a little more susceptible when you run into elite pitching and your offense might have to do a little more work. Ideally I think you'd want three veteran types and two young studs. That way you have a fairly good idea what you're getting from three of your guys while still having ace potential in the two younger guys.

 

If I had to chose, I'd go with the solid veterans, especially if that's supposed to represent our staff. I guess that depends on your definition of solid though. Contreras and Buehrle are both ace-type pitchers (not quite shut-down types like Zambrano or Santana though) and Vazquez fits in that category too when he is on. If we're talking something a little more like the St. Louis staff where their guys are nothing special outside of Carpenter, I might take my chances with the young guys though.

Edited June 23, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[RockRaines]

This is also Liriano's first time around the league as a starter. Zambrano has proven for years now that he's just an unbelievable pitcher even though he's a psycho. Liriano is one hell of a talent but his numbers are sure to go up a bit once he pitches a little more.

Zambrano wasnt this dominant even in his first time around. Not to mention he plays in the NL.