There are a ton of threads about different scenarios, so I was curious to see what everyone thinks in general. Are the rumors of Garcia or Vazquez going to come true or is there some type of shocker going to happen with someone like Buehrle or Contreras. Garland seems the least likely to move due to his No-trade clause, but a move to the West Coast (LAD, SF, SD) is still possible if he waives the clause.

I voted none, because I don't actually see them trading a starter. I really hope they do trade Garcia, though. I've seen enough "fast"balls, showing up his teammates, pitching down to bad teams, and I just don't like his attitude in general.

I think it has to be Garcia. He's lost the most, and he has some big game experience now. Someone will want him, someone will think they can fix him.

 

I think we've spent too much on Vazquez to give up on him this early, even though he sucks right now. He has the skills, someone just has to get in his head and make him pitch like we know/think he can. But Garcia is probably getting to the point where he just is losing it. He's thrown 200+ innings in 7 of the last 8 seasons. Sure, he's only 30, but he's been losing the MPH each year it seems. I hope he can turn it around, because he is an absolute stud when hes rolling, but I'm just not sure.

I'd prefer Vazquez to be dealt, since he seems to be incapable of timely pitch selection.

well we need to mix up the rotation and get these guys playing

 

they are going through the motions out there and they need to get pissed

Someone in the NL with a pitcher's park e.g Los Angeles, San Diego I think will end up trading for Freddy.

 

Garcia's shown he can still be dominant, just not against high quality hitting teams in the A.L.

I went with no trade. We have 2 weeks to see what is right.

Someone in the NL with a pitcher's park e.g Los Angeles, San Diego I think will end up trading for Freddy.

 

Garcia's shown he can still be dominant, just not against high quality hitting teams in the A.L.

 

 

I hope you are right. Freddy and his pedestrian fastball against good hitting AL teams is bad. In our park is real bad. In the grand canyon of some of those parks you are talking about he might do good. The NL is bad, and a medicore pitcher in the AL can be a 2 or a 3 in the NL. This rotation needs more bmac.

Edited July 17, 200619 yr by southsideirish71

Garcia needs to find out who stole his 94 mph fastball. Until he does, hes a junk thrower with no out pitch.

I voted none. With ERAs over 5, Garcia and Vazquez have no value on the trade market, Garland has a 1-year no-trade, and Buehrle and Contreras and McCarthy obviously aren't going anywhere. I expect KW to stick to his 3-year plan and ride it out with these starters. We may go down in flames, but that won't necessarily be the wrong choice.

 

Frankly, if you take Garcia out of the equation, the Sox, even in a good year, will have only 1 postseason ACE -- Contreras.

 

We saw last year and over the last 3 games that good hitting teams can expose Mark Buehrle. He doesn't have the stuff to dominate. In that way, he's a lot like the soft-tossing Atlanta starters -- Glavine, Maddux -- who could never get them over the hump in the postseason. He's a solid #2 or #3 guy, but there are a lot of guys can beat him.

 

Jon Garland may still get better. It's possible he could develop more sink to his sinker or improve his changeup. And he still has a live arm. But do you trust him in a big game? He pitched very well for us against LAA, and battled after Houston got to him a bit, but neither of those teams had powerful patient lineups. Frankly, he may be our second best starter at the moment.

 

Javy Vazquez has never pitched and won a big game in his life. And he appears to shrink the minute he runs into some adversity. Maybe he can be toughened and improved, but he's not trustworthy.

 

McCarthy is completely unproven at this point. Want to stake our playoff lives on giving him a start? (The answer could be YES if these other guys don't turn it around.)

 

As bad as Garcia is now, he's the only one who has had both the stuff and the moxie to defeat powerful hitting teams in big games in the past.

 

So my crystal ball indicates that Kenny Williams is going to stand pat with his starters, but try to add one more arm to the pen to make sure late inning leads stay that way.

 

Last season had he traded Contreras or McCarthy, as many people advocated, we'd be completely screwed. I don't think he's going to go down that road this year either.

I voted none. With ERAs over 5, Garcia and Vazquez have no value on the trade market, Garland has a 1-year no-trade, and Buehrle and Contreras and McCarthy obviously aren't going anywhere. I expect KW to stick to his 3-year plan and ride it out with these starters. We may go down in flames, but that won't necessarily be the wrong choice.

 

Frankly, if you take Garcia out of the equation, the Sox, even in a good year, will have only 1 postseason ACE -- Contreras.

 

We saw last year and over the last 3 games that good hitting teams can expose Mark Buehrle. He doesn't have the stuff to dominate. In that way, he's a lot like the soft-tossing Atlanta starters -- Glavine, Maddux -- who could never get them over the hump in the postseason. He's a solid #2 or #3 guy, but there are a lot of guys can beat him.

 

Jon Garland may still get better. It's possible he could develop more sink to his sinker or improve his changeup. And he still has a live arm. But do you trust him in a big game? He pitched very well for us against LAA, and battled after Houston got to him a bit, but neither of those teams had powerful patient lineups. Frankly, he may be our second best starter at the moment.

 

Javy Vazquez has never pitched and won a big game in his life. And he appears to shrink the minute he runs into some adversity. Maybe he can be toughened and improved, but he's not trustworthy.

 

McCarthy is completely unproven at this point. Want to stake our playoff lives on giving him a start? (The answer could be YES if these other guys don't turn it around.)

 

As bad as Garcia is now, he's the only one who has had both the stuff and the moxie to defeat powerful hitting teams in big games in the past.

 

So my crystal ball indicates that Kenny Williams is going to stand pat with his starters, but try to add one more arm to the pen to make sure late inning leads stay that way.

 

Last season had he traded Contreras or McCarthy, as many people advocated, we'd be completely screwed. I don't think he's going to go down that road this year either.

 

This is confusing. Freddy Garcias has Mark Buerhles fastball this year. So if good hitting teams can expose Mark who actually has good control, what will they do to Garcia. Without his big fastball, he doesnt have the stuff nor the moxie to do a thing. If you dont believe me, just check out what he did against a medicore New York Lineup. Remember the good old Freddy, on the road, in the day against a good team he was a lock. This year he gets rocked.

 

 

This statement is the most perplexing. "We may go down in flames, but that won't necessarily be the wrong choice. " So staying put and not upgrading anything and hoping and praying will work. Last year we had a 15 game lead in and around the draft deadline. This year we are not sitting so pretty. KW wants to win now. If you think he is looking 3 years ahead, I think you forget whom your GM is. He has passed on prospects like they are pawns in a chess game.

 

I say KW makes one big move, and 2 smaller moves. At least one of them will be for bullpen.

With ERAs over 5, Garcia and Vazquez have no value on the trade market

 

This is so wrong.

 

So my crystal ball indicates that Kenny Williams is going to stand pat with his starters, but try to add one more arm to the pen to make sure late inning leads stay that way.

 

Last season had he traded Contreras or McCarthy, as many people advocated, we'd be completely screwed. I don't think he's going to go down that road this year either.

 

Agree with this. Especially since he continues to emphasize it. The only way IMO one of the starters goes is if he gets another starter in return, meaning an upgrade. Then I could see it. Remember this is a guy who doesn't go out looking for #5 starters. He wants guys who are or can be #1 starters. Too bad a couple of guys on this team aren't pitching like it right now.

Edited July 18, 200619 yr by JimH

I voted none because....

 

If we trade Freddy Garcia or Javier Vacquez, it had better be for two good middle relievers because Brandon McCarthy would have to move into the rotation. Although McCarthy will become a starting pitcher next season, for at least this season, he brings a lot of flexibility to the bullpen, being able to pitch more than 1-2 innings, and also as a setup man from time to time. I don't want to lose that.

 

Yes, Vazquez and Garcia, who are really our end of the rotation starters for now with Garland stepping up have struggled, but with our offense, and their ability to hopefully turn things around, I still believe they're going to hang in there, and give us innings, and more importantly, wins, down the stretch.

 

I like the way the bullpen is coming together, Jenks closing the door, Cotts and Thorton from the left side, and McCarthy/Riske from the right side. Can it get better ? Absolutely - if Cotts (whose ERA has to be the most deceiving ERA on the staff) stops coming up into games, and giving up big hits with men already on base (and not counting against his ERA). We do still need one more veteran middle reliever, preferable a right hander, but I'll take anyone of quality right now. I do think we will be in the playoffs, meaning that Vazquez is likely to be in the bullpen as well.....

I dont think anyone major gets dealt. This is more or less the same team that won it all last year and I think KW is gonna let em make their run at it again without anymore moves. If we somehow fail to make the playoffs or have an early exit though you can look for some offseason moves.

I dont think anyone major gets dealt. This is more or less the same team that won it all last year and I think KW is gonna let em make their run at it again without anymore moves. If we somehow fail to make the playoffs or have an early exit though you can look for some offseason moves.

 

I think, WS winners or not, Kenny will be on the move again for more help like he did with Thome.

I think, WS winners or not, Kenny will be on the move again for more help like he did with Thome.

 

Or Geoff Blum

 

Afterall, Blum was acquired mid-season, whereas Thome was acquired in the offseason.

Or Geoff Blum

 

Afterall, Blum was acquired mid-season, whereas Thome was acquired in the offseason.

 

Good point - I was more referring to Kenny's desire to get better with the big move for Thome, even after they won the World Series.

 

As for this trade deadline, I'd be surprised if the Sox didn't find some middle reliever to help out.

I read one of the NY papers and they were saying the Yankees had no interest in Roberto Hernandez. Their scouts think he would be lit up in the AL. This from a team who signed Sidney Ponson. Makes you think twice about Bert.