CySox Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I think so have I ever seen him pitch? No. I follow the future sox board a lot and from everything ive seen and read about him I really never figured how he could be a 2/3 starter. Furthermore, hell be ready in what.. 2 or 3 seasons? Well have other similair prospects from now till then anyways.. I think it was a good move to add a piece to our club right now, which we needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 If MacDougal is healthy, I think its a hefty price but we'd be getting a pretty good reliever in return. If he's injured, than it could be one of those moves that really backfires. Just like the Vazquez deal would pan out if we could get Javy straightened out, if we couldn't, it could really backfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) I really don't like giving up Lumsden for McDougal. Like Jason said, if he's healthy he can be a very good reliever, but he's had trouble staying healthy. But, trying to look on the bright side, this does open up a spot for Whisler to be called up to AA. The Clemson connection (Lumsden and LaMura) is gone in a span of two days. I was hoping that someday we'd see these two in the bigs pitching a combined 8 strong innings, but I'm all in favor of the "win now" theory. And, look at what all the prospects have done that we've traded over the last few years. Not much. Edited July 25, 2006 by dasox24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Right now i'd say KC got the better of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) How does KC automatically get the better end of this deal? No matter what McDougal does in a Sox uniform theres no way to know who got the better end of this deal right now.. All I can say right now is this.. McDougal is guaranteed to have an effect on our Major League Club, whether it be good or bad.. Lumsden does not have that same guarantee for Kansas City Edited July 25, 2006 by T R U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(T R U @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) How does KC automatically get the better end of this deal? No matter what McDougal does in a Sox uniform theres no way to know who got the better end of this deal right now.. All I can say right now is this.. McDougal is guaranteed to have an effect on our Major League Club, whether it be good or bad.. Lumsden does not have that same guarantee for Kansas City Thats why I said i think KC got the better of the deal at the moment, because I think Lumsen has a solid future. Obviously time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(T R U @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) How does KC automatically get the better end of this deal? No matter what McDougal does in a Sox uniform theres no way to know who got the better end of this deal right now.. All I can say right now is this.. McDougal is guaranteed to have an effect on our Major League Club, whether it be good or bad.. Lumsden does not have that same guarantee for Kansas City I'll agree, but Lumsden will probably pitch for KC on technicality: they have no pitching. Lumsden is going to be in AAA next year and as a talented pitcher he'd really have to fall on his face in AAA to not even get a shot in the bigs with the Royals. That said I'm still a fan of the deal despite thinking that the Sox overpaid value wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(danman31 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 11:15 PM) I'll agree, but Lumsden will probably pitch for KC on technicality: they have no pitching. Lumsden is going to be in AAA next year and as a talented pitcher he'd really have to fall on his face in AAA to not even get a shot in the bigs with the Royals. That said I'm still a fan of the deal despite thinking that the Sox overpaid value wise. Youre right, with Kansas Citys lack of pitching it will be hard for Lumsden to not have a shot with them.. However I believe that being on a poor team can have a negative effect on a young pitcher such as Lumsden.. I just dont get how so many people are pinning Lumsden as the next great thing. Like 1986 said, time will tell. However ill take the guy who can pitch in the majors right now as opposed to someone who prolly wouldnt have gotten a shot with us for at least 2 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Lumsden is too much to give up for a pitcher who just got off the DL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Rotoworld predicted that Lumsden would be nothing more than a 4th starter. I wonder what various people here think about that prediction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 07:37 AM) Rotoworld predicted that Lumsden would be nothing more than a 4th starter. I wonder what various people here think about that prediction? Maybe, however he could be much better than that. My problem with it, is that we traded our best arm for a reliever with a very non impressive history. We got very little value for Lumsden imo and I think we could have done much more to improve our team for this season with Tyler than to add Macdougal. Edited July 25, 2006 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 10:39 PM) Maybe, however he could be much better than that. My problem with it, is that we traded our best arm for a reliever with a very non impressive history. We got very little value for Lumsden imo and I think we could have done much more to improve our team for this season with Tyler than to add Macdougal. He could absolutely, but he'll need to show next season an increased K rate in AAA I would imagine. What do you think is fair value for Lumsden BTW Rowand, if you had to pick an available player that would fit the need of this team instead of MacDougall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 07:45 AM) He could absolutely, but he'll need to show next season an increased K rate in AAA I would imagine. What do you think is fair value for Lumsden BTW Rowand, if you had to pick an available player that would fit the need of this team instead of MacDougall? That's a good question and to be honest, I don't have a good answer right now. I know it's nice for me to play fantasy gm and not even come up with a plausible idea but I just have a real bad feeling about this deal. I do know one thing though, Mike is going to make me nervous everytime out there, just waiting for another injury. Hopefully I'm wrong about this whole thing, I just don't like trading our best minor league arm for a guy who makes Kerry Wood's mechanics look good, and yes I stole that line from Steve Stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CySox Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 That's a good question and to be honest, I don't have a good answer right now. I know it's nice for me to play fantasy gm and not even come up with a plausible idea but I just have a real bad feeling about this deal. I do know one thing though, Mike is going to make me nervous everytime out there, just waiting for another injury. Hopefully I'm wrong about this whole thing, I just don't like trading our best minor league arm for a guy who makes Kerry Wood's mechanics look good, and yes I stole that line from Steve Stone. Rowand, I kinda agree with you. But, when healthy, McDougal is one of the best relief pitchers in the game. But, if his injuries continue, and Lumsden becomes a good starter in 5 years, it is going to look like a bad trade. I hope a change in scenery is all McDougal needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 07:45 AM) He could absolutely, but he'll need to show next season an increased K rate in AAA I would imagine. What do you think is fair value for Lumsden BTW Rowand, if you had to pick an available player that would fit the need of this team instead of MacDougall? I would have taken Flash over MacDougal, but that would have involved the Sox giving Garcia(which would have been awwwwwesome), Vazquez(equally awwwwwwsome), Fields(not so cool), or Sweeney(definately not so cool). So for the price, I'm fine. I think we gave up a bit too much...Lumsden alone should have been plenty to get MacDougal, but why was it necessary to give up Cortes? Just seems unnecessary to give up more talent than you have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I think we gave up a bit too much...Lumsden alone should have been plenty to get MacDougal, but why was it necessary to give up Cortes? Just seems unnecessary to give up more talent than you have to. Agree 100%. That's the part of the deal that made me want to puke. I could have gotten over losing Lumsden for MacDougal straight up, but throwing in a prospect like Cortes really makes me sick. I wouldn't be suprised to see Lumsden get a shot with the Royals out of spring training next year, or even as a September call-up this year. Cortes should continue developing into a very nice pitcher as well. We have to hope MacDougal is healthy and pitches well, and in my opinion, only then will we be able to call this deal fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 10:48 PM) Agree 100%. That's the part of the deal that made me want to puke. I could have gotten over losing Lumsden for MacDougal straight up, but throwing in a prospect like Cortes really makes me sick. I wouldn't be suprised to see Lumsden get a shot with the Royals out of spring training next year, or even as a September call-up this year. Cortes should continue developing into a very nice pitcher as well. We have to hope MacDougal is healthy and pitches well, and in my opinion, only then will we be able to call this deal fair. We weren't on the phone. We don't know what it would have taken. It's not like KW thought, "Oh. What the hell. You guys can have this kid with a live arm for free. I feel like being nice today." From what I saw of Lumsden, I was really impressed. With that said, he still doesn't have the stuff that McDougal has. They've both had arm problems. Once is ready now. The other one isn't. This isn't really that hard to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 We weren't on the phone. We don't know what it would have taken. It's not like KW thought, "Oh. What the hell. You guys can have this kid with a live arm for free. I feel like being nice today." From what I saw of Lumsden, I was really impressed. With that said, he still doesn't have the stuff that McDougal has. They've both had arm problems. Once is ready now. The other one isn't. This isn't really that hard to understand. Well of course not, but it's not like MacDougal is going to make or break our season. Giving up two top 20 prospects for a Royals 29 year old MR with a mysterious shoulder injury is a bit much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 I think its impossible to answer right now. We have to wait and see what happens. If mcdougal pitches 4 injury free years for us and Lumsden is nothing more than a 4th man, than we get the better half, but if mcdougal is hurt all the time and Lumsden becomes a 18 game winner than they get the better of it. This is actually a great question for like three years from now. But i trust KW, he has yet to trade away a great pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 10:59 PM) Well of course not, but it's not like MacDougal is going to make or break our season. Giving up two top 20 prospects for a Royals 29 year old MR with a mysterious shoulder injury is a bit much. So what you are saying is...two Top 500 ML prospects for a major league pitcher. Just because they are in the top 20 in the White Sox organization doesn't mean they are good prospects. Minor leaguers are put into three categories: Major League players Trade bait Filler Now, these can change over the course of a career, but that's about it. Lumsden may have moved off the three year board. Cortes may have been too far away from the big club for it to matter. Bottom line, we didn't give up any Major League ready talent for McDougal. I like the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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