southsideirish71 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I love how people are posting Floyds Career ERA, the 23 year old kid mind you. I guess once you hit 24 and your ERA is still bad its time to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Apparently Kenny watched a lot of fall league games and got to see both Floyd and Gio in action. Gio has made a lot of strides with his changeup to give him 2 plus pitches (curve and changeup) to go along with his 91-93 MPH fastball. And Floyd has a nasty sinker and really needs a change of scenery to go with a huge big breaking curveball (that looked damn good when I saw him pitch a couple times for the Phillies). I remember watching Floyd pitch a good deal early on when he came up and I thought wow this guy will be good. Its taken a while and he's obviously had control and mechanical flaws, but he's still fully capable of being a front of the line guy. I'm surprised cause I was one of the people b****ing heavily about dealing guys just for prospects but if I understand Kenny's philosphy (based on the Rogers article) things are starting to make some sense and I really don't mind this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:28 PM) You have to remember, I was one of the biggest Rowand apologists around no matter how bad of an offensive player he was. I've taken over that role with Anderson . QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:31 PM) Its taken a while and he's obviously had control and mechanical flaws, but he's still fully capable of being a front of the line guy. I'm surprised cause I was one of the people b****ing heavily about dealing guys just for prospects but if I understand Kenny's philosphy (based on the Rogers article) things are starting to make some sense and I really don't mind this. Even given all that, even if Floyd is fixable and Gio can stay healthy...doesn't it still seem like we could have gotten a little bit more here? Even if it was just the Phillies trying to do a salary dump? That's my other concern, couldn't we have gotten just a tad more? B level prospect somewhere or something? I like the philosophy in general as well, but that philosophy only works if you maximize the talent coming back to you in every deal, and given Floyd's struggles, I'm just not sure we did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:00 AM) (even though some people would say this is negative PR wise in the case of Bonds I stick to the old adage of any type of PR is good PR). Unless it's steroids talk coming from here in a Sports Illustrated article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) This thread has gotten to nice and laid back. f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** Ok, I feel better. Edited December 7, 2006 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 FWIW, the Sox weren't talking with Bonds today. There was no mystery team. That's why Rogers said it was a bad rumor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:38 PM) FWIW, the Sox weren't talking with Bonds today. There was no mystery team. That's why Rogers said it was a bad rumor. Thank the sun god... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Holy crap, is there another move coming soon? In the press conference announcing the trade, KW first says that this move gives the Sox the opportunity to move the McCarthy into the rotation. Later on he says that Floyd will compete with him for the last spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHAMBARONS Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:31 PM) Apparently Kenny watched a lot of fall league games and got to see both Floyd and Gio in action. Gio has made a lot of strides with his changeup to give him 2 plus pitches (curve and changeup) to go along with his 91-93 MPH fastball. And Floyd has a nasty sinker and really needs a change of scenery to go with a huge big breaking curveball (that looked damn good when I saw him pitch a couple times for the Phillies). I remember watching Floyd pitch a good deal early on when he came up and I thought wow this guy will be good. Its taken a while and he's obviously had control and mechanical flaws, but he's still fully capable of being a front of the line guy. I'm surprised cause I was one of the people b****ing heavily about dealing guys just for prospects but if I understand Kenny's philosphy (based on the Rogers article) things are starting to make some sense and I really don't mind this. Seen KW a lot in the Fall League mainly since AZ/CHW were paired up on the same team. And yes Gio was drawing good reviews from the GM's and scouts. Think the Sox's done a good deal here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I honestly believe that Floyd will be the best player in this deal. I'm still not sold on Gio, he just worries me though I do love the kids arm. With Gio I think you're either getting a top of the line starter or a complete bust, I really don't think there is going to be an inbetween. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:42 AM) ^^^ I've become ok with the Garcia trade. Bonds would push me way over the edge... Here is how a landscape changes folks.... So the Mets could possibly get either one year of Freddy, or they could get possibly one of the As young starters. HMMMMM which one would you pick The Mets are interested in an A's starter, but it's not Rich Harden. Outfielder Lastings Milledge is the bait. I could give up major league talent and get Freddy Garcia, or maybe I could get Brad Penny. HMMM which one would I pick Now that the Dodgers have added starters Randy Wolf and Jason Schmidt, they have enough depth in the rotation to trade a starter for a bat. Two baseball people said the Dodgers are shopping right-hander Brad Penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:43 PM) Holy crap, is there another move coming soon? In the press conference announcing the trade, KW first says that this move gives the Sox the opportunity to move the McCarthy into the rotation. Later on he says that Floyd will compete with him for the last spot. Hell, if Floyd could actually find a way in ST to pitch well enough to earn the spot, I for one wouldn't complain at all, and I can't wait to see BMac in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:42 AM) ^^^ I've become ok with the Garcia trade. Bonds would push me way over the edge... It's funny when you actually give it some time, cool down and take a look at the deal as a whole it doesn't look all that bad. Of course I am capable of convincing myself of anything so I could just be kidding myself right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) I honestly believe that Floyd will be the best player in this deal. I'm still not sold on Gio, he just worries me though I do love the kids arm. With Gio I think you're either getting a top of the line starter or a complete bust, I really don't think there is going to be an inbetween. I have a lot of trouble believing that our scouting department would be so bad to actually get Gio back without believing strongly he'd be the top of the line type guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:48 AM) I have a lot of trouble believing that our scouting department would be so bad to actually get Gio back without believing strongly he'd be the top of the line type guy. I love his arm, I really do. There is just something about him that makes me think he COULD turn out to be a complete bust, might just be a gut feeling but something doesn't sit great with me when it comes to Mr. Gonzalez. That being said, I could see him becoming a front line starter some day as well, we shall see. Hopefully both him and Floyd live up to their potential, wouldn't that be nice for a change? Edited December 7, 2006 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:47 PM) It's funny when you actually give it some time, cool down and take a look at the deal as a whole it doesn't look all that bad. Of course I am capable of convincing myself of anything so I could just be kidding myself right now. It doesn't look that bad, but on paper, it doesn't look incredibly shockingly amazing either, and that's the only complaint I think you can realistically have. With the decrease in Floyd's value, it just seems difficult to believe we couldn't talk the Phillies out of a little more. Just a little bit more. Garcia, Rowand, and Haigwood for Thome, Floyd, and $20 million or so. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:50 PM) I love his arm, I really do. There is just something about him that makes me think he COULD turn out to be a complete bust, might just be a gut feeling but something doesn't sit great with me when it comes to Mr. Gonzalez. That being said, I could see him becoming a front line starter some day as well, we shall see. Hopefully they'll both live up to their potential, wouldn't that be nice for a change? It's the health thing for me. I'm just not convinced he won't turn into a Prior/Liriano. But as good as our team has been at avoiding people with severe injury problems over the last few years, that seems like something we're good at, and I keep telling myself that they wouldn't actually reacquire Gio if they weren't convinced he could stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:51 AM) It doesn't look that bad, but on paper, it doesn't look incredibly shockingly amazing either, and that's the only complaint I think you can realistically have. With the decrease in Floyd's value, it just seems difficult to believe we couldn't talk the Phillies out of a little more. Just a little bit more. Garcia, Rowand, and Haigwood for Thome, Floyd, and $20 million or so. It's the health thing for me. I'm just not convinced he won't turn into a Prior/Liriano. But as good as our team has been at avoiding people with severe injury problems over the last few years, that seems like something we're good at, and I keep telling myself that they wouldn't actually reacquire Gio if they weren't convinced he could stay healthy. That's definitely a part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:43 AM) Holy crap, is there another move coming soon? In the press conference announcing the trade, KW first says that this move gives the Sox the opportunity to move the McCarthy into the rotation. Later on he says that Floyd will compete with him for the last spot. I highly doubt Floyd ends up in the rotation. He'll either start in AAA or pitch out of the pen. We know about his fastball and his curve, but does anybody know anything about his change? Maybe he's just a two pictch pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Too much of this philosophy and potential talk, there's a lot of 'ifs'. Positive is opening a spot for McCarthy? Pssh, after you took it away last year (and gave away a prospect and bullpen help at the same time). Let's just hope he's not another one of our kids we've ruined by using them wrong. Freddy wasn't going to be resigned anyway. So? Wait it out, there will be a lot more desperate teams before then who would jump all over that value, I'd take that chance more than more prospects. Same Freddy who even coming in overweight and not caring since he won a championship won what? 17 games? And got his fastball back towards the end of the year and got a new devastating pitch. KW has been right on prospects which have turned out nicely, but he's been wrong too. Acting too risky for me for a team that was supposed to be in the top position with some luxury this offseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 So..Young, Viz and Duque for Floyd, Gio and Vaz in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:53 AM) I highly doubt Floyd ends up in the rotation. He'll either start in AAA or pitch out of the pen. We know about his fastball and his curve, but does anybody know anything about his change? Maybe he's just a two pictch pitcher. Or he could be a loogy with that curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:55 PM) So..Young, Viz and Duque for Floyd, Gio and Vaz in a way. That's a really wierd way to look at it. But if nothing else, that's a good way to get a younger pitching staff - trade away an old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:56 AM) Or he could be a loogy with that curve. He's a righty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:57 AM) He's a righty. I was talking about GIO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) Or he could be a loogy with that curve. He's a lefty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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