UPDATE: Uribe now certain he'll play

[shipps]

I cant remember who I was argueing with on the boards about this whole Uribe situation and how I thought it was over and he was cleared of everything, and they said he wasnt cleared and it was still a big issue.To that person I apologize you were totally right.This news is a shock to me.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ok if we're going to look at things this way. Cintron's .359 OBP came in a season which he hit .317 meaning his high OBP was directly related to his near .320 BA which is something he's never even come close to duplicating as a matter of fact the highest he ever hit in the minors was .322 as a 23 year old in AAA he never came close to that at any other point in his big league career.

 

Anyway, when debating between Cintron and Uribe I find it pretty ridiculous to bring plate discipline or OBP into the argument seeing as they both suck at drawing walks and are free swingers by nature. I don't think anyone really knows who Juan Uribe is, whether he's the .833 OPS player he was in '04 or the .698 he put up last season is the true Juan but 2 things are for certain he's still one of the best defensive players in the game at an incredibly crucial defensive position and he's shown good power on a consistent basis.

 

Alex on the other hand is a good bat, he seems to be a pretty good contact guy with limited power and limited speed. He doesn't have the defensive skills you're looking for out of your SS but he is a decent baserunner. In other words he's a very good bat to have off the bench but from what he's shown at the major league level I'd much rather have him at around 300 ABs per season kicking ass for me in a pinch hitting role than picking up 600 ABs as my starting SS.

 

I'm with Kalapse. This team simply is not as good without Uribe as the everyday SS.

[DBAHO]

Anyway, when debating between Cintron and Uribe I find it pretty ridiculous to bring plate discipline or OBP into the argument seeing as they both suck at drawing walks and are free swingers by nature. I don't think anyone really knows who Juan Uribe is, whether he's the .833 OPS player he was in '04 or the .698 he put up last season is the true Juan but 2 things are for certain he's still one of the best defensive players in the game at an incredibly crucial defensive position and he's shown good power on a consistent basis.

I don't disagree with that, because they both are terrible at taking walks, but you still have to consider the OBP's both players put up last season;

 

Uribe - .257

Cintron - .310

 

That's still quite a difference b/w the 2 players. To me, Uribe's number is TOTALLY unaccepabtle in a plus hitting environment, while it would be berable for Cintron IF he had the defense that Uribe had, but unfortunately he doesn't.

[beautox]

And finally...Podsednik for Carillo and Blanks beau? If we're getting that much for garbage, why don't we just take Greene from them and keep Crede? And horrid platoon of Sledge and Cruz? Sledge has never really been a good player, but every season Cruz has been in the big leagues, he's had a respectable season. As an 8 hitter, he's worth hanging on to at like $650K or whatever ridiculously cheap salary he's at.

 

Podsednik might not have alot of value in the eyes of sox fans, but i think two years of Podsednik at around 7mil total is a reasonable deal for a B lvl SP spec that has a checkered injury past and a 1B who hasn't moved above A. Scott would certainly be better than Terrmel Sledge & Jose Cruz in LF and hes cheap, how much more $ do the padres have left to pay on Petco?

 

The marlins got 3 good arms for Pierre in his contract year.

[DBAHO]

Podsednik might not have alot of value in the eyes of sox fans, but i think two years of Podsednik at around 7mil total is a reasonable deal for a B lvl SP spec that has a checkered injury past and a 1B who hasn't moved above A. Scott would certainly be better than Terrmel Sledge & Jose Cruz in LF and hes cheap, how much more $ do the padres have left to pay on Petco?

 

The marlins got 3 good arms for Pierre in his contract year.

Basically I thought the Cubs definitely overpaid to get Pierre. Hendry was stuck b/w a rock and a hard-place, the fan base was basically demanding that he get a leadoff hitter who gets on base by any means neccessary.

 

Would Podsednik be better than Sledge and Cruz? I don't know. I always liked Cruz, he puts up a solid OBP (better than Pods's) it just depends on whether he can actually hit. And they've been saying good things about Sledge this off-season, although whether he'll produce is up for discussion.

 

Would I call Carillo a B level spec? No, I'd probably say B+ because of the injury history, he'd be an A and probably already in the Padre rotation if he could stay healthy.

 

So I'd definitely take him straight up for Podsednik, and I'm sure since KW values young pitching a lot, he probably would too.

[Wedge]

Dye at SS?

[Tuna]

Maybe Ozzie will play SS this year...

 

why not? Ive heard every other ridiculous scenario in this thread...

[SoxHawk1980]

Would this be addition by subtraction? Probably not. Cintron really isn't any good. But I don't know if the hitting will be any worse.

 

On another note, this shows why it really isn't a good idea to carry a gun around. Sometimes people get shot.

 

Broadway for Cristian Guzman?

 

That is absurdly stupid.

It certainly is. But I could easily see KW trading something for the awful Christian Guzman. He's one of those players that KW has an odd man crush on.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Jan 6, 2007 -> 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's one of those players that KW has an odd man crush on.

Since when?

 

After the Sox lost out on Vizquel, they were rumored to sign Cristian Guzman. Reinsdorf came out to the public and said they had no interest in signing him because his numbers away from the Merodome were "pathetic."

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Anybody got Mike Caruso's phone number?

[Kalapse]

I don't disagree with that, because they both are terrible at taking walks, but you still have to consider the OBP's both players put up last season;

 

Uribe - .257

Cintron - .310

 

That's still quite a difference b/w the 2 players. To me, Uribe's number is TOTALLY unaccepabtle in a plus hitting environment, while it would be berable for Cintron IF he had the defense that Uribe had, but unfortunately he doesn't.

Ok, Cintron put up a .310 OBP in limited time which was only 25 points higher than his batting average that's pretty damn brutal. Who's to say if he gets starters ABs that his batting average doesn't plummet taking that horrid OBP right along with it? I just don't get how you could use OBP at all, Uribe was terrible last year I totally agree I just don't see how Cintron is any better.

[Tuna]

I got a buddy named Franky Caruso and I have his number....

 

well...not really a buddy, to tell you the truth he's a real jerk off but nonetheless I have his number if you want it...

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok, Cintron put up a .310 OBP in limited time which was only 25 points higher than his batting average that's pretty damn brutal. Who's to say if he gets starters ABs that his batting average doesn't plummet taking that horrid OBP right along with it? I just don't get how you could use OBP at all, Uribe was terrible last year I totally agree I just don't see how Cintron is any better.

Cintron will be substantial a drop in power and defense, no doubt. But I don't see how you can just dismiss OBP out of hand like that, since Cintron's OBP is 20+ points higher for his career than Uribe's - not a small difference. Heck, even with Juan's power, their career OPS numbers are actually almost identical (.730 v .727). Offensively, Cintron will be pretty close to Uribe, and would likely be much higher in terms of getting on base (which is key for him in this lineup).

 

Note: I still would rather have Uribe by a long shot, mostly due to Uribe's much better defense. I am just saying that the offensive production from that slot would not change much in this case - we'd just get less power but more OBP.

[shoota]

140+ games with Cintron at short will explain to you how false that sentence is. When Juan is hot, he is a damn great hitter and when he is cold, he sucks. But, he is one of the three best defensive shortstops in the league and overall a better player than Cintron. BTW, Juanny looks like he slimmed down a little. If he plays this year, I expect a solid season .270, 20 HR, 70 RBIs and 10 SBs.

 

It's not an either/or situation. Uribe and Cintron are not the only options.

[PAUL KONERKO 14]

Cintron is definitely a better hitter than Uribe, but not better on the D. Cintrons defense isn't that bad so I wouldn't mind that much having Cintron start, I like the guy.

[NorthSideSox72]

Cintron is definitely a better hitter than Uribe, but not better on the D. Cintrons defense isn't that bad so I wouldn't mind that much having Cintron start, I like the guy.

I'd say they would be more or less equivalent offensively in 2007 - one with more power, the other one slightly higher OBP and better baserunning. so which is better may be a philosophical question. Uribe, I think, does have more talent than Cintron offensively, if he can ever learn just a little bit more discipline up there.

 

Cintron doesn't have nearly the range on ground balls that Uribe does, nor does he have the arm - neither of which show well in the stats, but are still true. The defensive drop-off would be pretty big.

[BaseballNick]

I think we're in trouble if Cintron is our everyday SS. He's a fine utility/backup, but I don't want him out there 5+ days a week. His range and arm strength don't even compare to Juan's.

 

So, why wouldn't Juan be available at all if he needs to be present 2 days a month in the DR? We have a lot invested in this guy right now. He needs to be playing for us in '07.

[That funky motion]

Juan Uribe said he may sit out the 2007 season after a judge ordered him to make twice-monthly court appearances in a Dominican Republic shooting case.

 

Under Friday's order from the judge in the case, Uribe must appear in court in San Cristobal on the 15th and 30th day of every month until the case is resolved. This even though everyone has been led to believe there's no evidence tying him to the Oct. 13 shootings that left two men wounded. "I am going to decide if I am playing in the major leagues or not this year," Uribe said Friday. "It looks very ugly to be accused of something. But first I am going to resolve this and then I will go to the major leagues." If Uribe isn't going to play, the White Sox will probably go forward with Alex Cintron at shortstop and look for some veteran insurance.

[DBAHO]

Ok, Cintron put up a .310 OBP in limited time which was only 25 points higher than his batting average that's pretty damn brutal. Who's to say if he gets starters ABs that his batting average doesn't plummet taking that horrid OBP right along with it? I just don't get how you could use OBP at all, Uribe was terrible last year I totally agree I just don't see how Cintron is any better.

Well Cintron is a career .280/.318/.409 hitter (OPS of .727), so I think he's shown throughout his career he can certainly hit for a pretty good average when he's given the chance.

 

If only he was a bit more selective at the plate, it would certainly raise his offensive value.

 

Uribe is a career .258/.297/.433 hitter (OPS of .730).

 

EDIT: And I just looked at Northside's post. OOPS.

[dwalteroo]

I am an attorney. And my conclusion is that Juan Uribe is still fat.

 

The defense rests, your honor.

[knightni]

The defense rests, your honor.

 

 

The defense eats twinkees, your honor.

[greasywheels121]

Better news coming from Uribe's camp now:

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines

[Baines3]

That's a little more encouraging. I always liked Juan, I hope things work out for him.

[RockRaines]

I still think this was all a bad translation and he will play this year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Good news! Uribe is one of those guys you can't stand sometimes, but would definitely miss if he were gone.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Jordan4life_2006