santo=dorf Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Indians are looking really bad right now on ESPN, and they haven't even got to their bullpen yet. Hafner is awful at first, and Peralta still looks like a hack at short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 05:47 PM) Indians are looking really bad right now on ESPN, and they haven't even got to their bullpen yet. Hafner is awful at first, and Peralta still looks like a hack at short. Sowers throws softly on the corners with his left hand. All they'll need is 1 run against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) Sowers throws softly on the corners with his left hand. All they'll need is 1 run against us. You can all but guarantee he'll frustrate this lineup. I'd love to watch the entire game on ESPN, but frankly, I'm not interested in hearing about Civil Rights and baseball for 9....straight....innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Konerko vs. Blake Iguchi vs. Barfield Uribe vs. Peralta Crede vs. Marte AJ vs. Martinez Pods vs. Dellucci Erstad vs. Grady Dye vs. Trot Nixon Thome vs. Hafner Contreras vs. CC Garland vs. Westbrook Buerhle vs. Lee - wash Vazquez vs. Byrd Danks vs. Sowers - wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If Ozzie's managing this team, Sizemore is the only change. If not, Hafner, Grady, Barfield, Peralta, Martinez, Dellucci, CC, and Sowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 why is everybody so high on lee? I can understand being low on buehrle but lee's never proven a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(ScottyDo @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> why is everybody so high on lee? I can understand being low on buehrle but lee's never proven a thing. Before anyone mentions his 2005 season, read this; Cliff Lee improved to 18-4 despite giving up six runs in 6 2/3 innings against the Royals tonight. The Indians have actually tried talking up Lee as a Cy Young contender, but that's a joke and an insult to Kevin Millwood, who has been the club's best pitcher. Lee has had a nice season, but at 3.90, he barely ranks in the top 20 in the AL in ERA. Also, six of his 31 starts have come against Kansas City, and the only other team he faced more than twice was a weak Seattle club. He's 1-1 with a 6.43 ERA in his six starts against the Red Sox, Yankees and White Sox. Cliff Lee won for the 17th time this season after allowing four runs in seven innings against the Royals tonight. The Indians are just 3 1/2 back of the White Sox now. Kevin Millwood would be the Cy Young favorite if he received Lee's run support. Six times Lee has won without posting a quality start. He is 3-1 with a 5.28 ERA in five starts against the Royals. He just loves facing the Royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 01:26 AM) Before anyone mentions his 2005 season, read this; He just loves facing the Royals My point exactly. He's the Don Quixote of major league pitchers. Wait, scratch that, he's no Josh Beckett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 06:54 PM) Konerko vs. Blake Iguchi vs. Barfield Uribe vs. Peralta Crede vs. Marte AJ vs. Martinez Pods vs. Dellucci Erstad vs. Grady Dye vs. Trot Nixon Thome vs. Hafner Contreras vs. CC Garland vs. Westbrook Buerhle vs. Lee - wash Vazquez vs. Byrd Danks vs. Sowers - wash Konerko > Blake Iguchi > Barfield Uribe > Peralta Martinez > AJ (real close) Crede >>> Marte Pods > Dellucci Grady >>> Erstad Thome (healthy) > Hafner C.C > Contreras Garland > Westbrook Buehrle >>> Lee (not even close Vazquez > Byrd Danks/Sowers=To be determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 02:45 AM) Konerko > Blake Iguchi > Barfield Uribe > Peralta Martinez > AJ (real close) Crede >>> Marte Pods > Dellucci Grady >>> Erstad Thome (healthy) > Hafner C.C > Contreras Garland > Westbrook Buehrle >>> Lee (not even close Vazquez > Byrd Danks/Sowers=To be determined. I love Thome, but Hafner is much better than even a perfectly healthy Thome these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 09:32 AM) I love Thome, but Hafner is much better than even a perfectly healthy Thome these days. Absolutely. I don't know where anyone gets the idea that Jim Thome is better than Hafner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 03:45 AM) Konerko > Blake Iguchi > Barfield Uribe > Peralta Martinez > AJ (real close) Crede >>> Marte Pods > Dellucci Grady >>> Erstad Thome (healthy) > Hafner C.C > Contreras Garland > Westbrook Buehrle >>> Lee (not even close Vazquez > Byrd Danks/Sowers=To be determined. Garko also factors in at 1B, but Konerko is better obviously. I would take Barfield over Iguchi if I were building a team, but Iguchi for THIS Sox team. Uribe and Peralta is EVEN, at best, for the Sox Pods, no comment until I've seen him play the first 2-3 months Hafner is clearly better than Thome Garland and Westbrook is very even, edge to JG because of age Buehrle and Lee is pretty even, based on last year...over career, MB Sowers has a clear advantage on anyone we throw out there in the 5th spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Absolutely. I don't know where anyone gets the idea that Jim Thome is better than Hafner. Thome is better against RHP, but Hafner is MUCH better against LHP. Considering the Sox face about RHP twice as much as lefties, one could argue it makes sense to take Thome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 09:38 AM) Absolutely. I don't know where anyone gets the idea that Jim Thome is better than Hafner. 7-10 years ago, Thome would probably be better. But Hafner vs. Thome right now, it isn't even close. Hafner is also younger, which also makes him better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 (edited) Vs. LHP Hafner: .321/.442/.658/1.100 (222 PA's) Thome: .236/.354/.361/.715 (222 PA's) Vs. RHP Hafner: .300/.436/.659/1.095 (332 PA's) Thome: .321/.454/.749/1.203 (375 PA's) Overall Hafner: .308/.439/.659/1.097 (554 PA's) Thome: .288/.416/.598/1.014 (597 PA's) Don't be silly Bearsox, it's pretty close. Edited April 1, 2007 by santo=dorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) Vs. LHP Hafner: .321/.442/.658/1.100 (222 PA's) Thome: .236/.354/.361/.715 (222 PA's) Vs. RHP Hafner: .300/.436/.659/1.095 (332 PA's) Thome: .321/.454/.749/1.203 (375 PA's) Overall Hafner: .308/.439/.659/1.097 (554 PA's) Thome: .288/.416/.598/1.014 (597 PA's) Don't be silly Bearsox, it's pretty close. It's pretty close, but Hafner's youth and ability to hit lefties puts him over the edge, IMO. We have plenty of guys who can hit righties... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 11:22 AM) 7-10 years ago, Thome would probably be better. But Hafner vs. Thome right now, it isn't even close. Hafner is also younger, which also makes him better. QUOTE(BearSox @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:22 PM) It's pretty close, but Hafner's youth and ability to hit lefties puts him over the edge, IMO. We have plenty of guys who can hit righties... Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's pretty close, but Hafner's youth and ability to hit lefties puts him over the edge, IMO. We have plenty of guys who can hit righties... Travis Hafner is a year younger than Paul Konerko. I know Thome is older, but "youth" isn't a word I would associate with Hafner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:24 PM) Heh. After looking at the stats, I realized it was pretty close. I didn't know their stats were that similar. QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:34 PM) Travis Hafner is a year younger than Paul Konerko. I know Thome is older, but "youth" isn't a word I would associate with Hafner. Thats right, Hafner didn't come up to the bigs until he was about 26-27, correct? Well, Hafner being 29 is a better age then Thome at 37. 29 is usually the peak of a players career, and 37, it usually goes downhill from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> After looking at the stats, I realized it was pretty close. I didn't know their stats were that similar. Thats right, Hafner didn't come up to the bigs until he was about 26-27, correct? Well, Hafner being 29 is a better age then Thome at 37. 29 is usually the peak of a players career, and 37, it usually goes downhill from there... Hafner will be turning 30 in June therefore by your definiton he is going to decline. So if Thome, 7 years older, is putting up similar numbers to a guy who has hit his peak, why is it so obvious to take the second guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 What kept Hafner in the minor leagues so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What kept Hafner in the minor leagues so long? He was playing American Legion ball when the Braves found him. Didn't start rookie ball until he was 20. EDIT: It was the Braves (of course) who originally found him and then encouraged him to go to college. Edited April 1, 2007 by santo=dorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:41 PM) Hafner will be turning 30 in June therefore by your definiton he is going to decline. So if Thome, 7 years older, is putting up similar numbers to a guy who has hit his peak, why is it so obvious to take the second guy? Hafner's best years are in front of him. Thome will be declining in stats every year from this point, probably. Also, Hafner has around 10 years left in him, Thome only has a couple. Plus, the stats you posted were pretty mis-leading... Last season, at the age 28-29, Hafner had a .439 OBP, .659 SLG, and a .308 AVG all together, and crushed lefties. Also, in 40 less AB's, Hafner hit the same amount of homers then Thome, while also driving in 7 more runs. Also, as you posted, Hafner destroys Thome vs. left handed pitching. Plus, Hafner would have had better power numbers most likely, if he had not gotten hit in his elbow by a pitch which ended his season early. After looking at their stats more carefully, it really isn't close anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:43 PM) What kept Hafner in the minor leagues so long? Nothing really, he just put in his time at the lower levels like most players, played at every level for atleast 1 season and made his debut with Texas as a 25 year old. So instead of being rushed through the minors and promoted in his early 20's he improved every season as he moved through the system and go his shot at a perfectly acceptable age. A lot like Crede or Utley. '97 - 20 - RK - pretty damn good '98 - 21 - A - struggled big time '99 - 22 - A - improved, performed well '00 - 23 - A+ - breakout season, huge numbers '01 - 24 - AA - really good once again, still improving '02 - 25 - AAA - adapted to the new league and was looking ready for the bigs '02 - 25 - MAJ - struggled in cup of coffee He was also trying to find his position in the minors, 3B, 1B and finally becoming a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 1, 2007 -> 12:51 PM) He was playing American Legion ball when the Rangers found him. Didn't start rookie ball until he was 20. Wasn't he drafted in like the 30th round out of a community college? I don't know why it took him so long to reach the show, but he did put up great numbers in the minors. And starting rookie ball when you are 20 is perfectly normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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