scenario Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) Which Tribe players would actually start for us? I'm not talking long term. I'm not talking multi-year 'potential'. I'm talking about 2007. If you mixed the two rosters, who would win the starting positions? Position Players First, compare the position players for the two starting lineups... Consider both offensive and defensive contributions. Konerko vs. Blake Iguchi vs. Barfield Uribe vs. Peralta Crede vs. Marte AJ vs. Martinez Pods vs. Dellucci Erstad vs. Grady Dye vs. Trot Nixon Thome vs. Hafner Starting Pitchers (the way they're slotted in the rotation) And who would you take in each of these matchups? Contreras vs. CC Garland vs. Westbrook Buerhle vs. Lee Vazquez vs. Byrd Danks vs. Sowers Edited March 31, 2007 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 sizemore any day of the week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) Sowers over Danks might be interesting. Peralta over Uribe as well. Edited March 31, 2007 by knightni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 Peralta and Uribe are pretty close to a wash IMO. Peralta had one good year offensively and he's a butcher in the field. I'd take Uribe for his defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 C.C., Sowers, Hafner, Sizemore, Dellucci, VMart, and possibly Barfield (I think he's going to thrive away from San Diego). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 VMart is probably the worst defensive catcher in the American League. Why would you take him over AJ? Power?? In the last two years, Martinez has hit 36 home runs. AJ has hit 34. The difference in their offensive stats is mostly based on two factors: Martinez walks more He bats higher in the lineup I'd take AJ for his defense and ability to handle the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 11:21 AM) C.C., Sowers, Hafner, Sizemore, Dellucci, VMart, and possibly Barfield (I think he's going to thrive away from San Diego). I agree with you on all but Martinez and Barfield. We just couldn't have Victor as our catcher. He's absolutely awful. And I'd take Iguchi for this year, though Barfield may be better in time. Hafner for sure over Thome, though. I bet a lot of people wouldn't want to say that. Edited March 31, 2007 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) VMart is probably the worst defensive catcher in the American League. Why would you take him over AJ? Power?? In the last two years, Martinez has hit 36 home runs. AJ has hit 34. The difference in their offensive stats is mostly based on two factors: Martinez walks more He bats higher in the lineup I'd take AJ for his defense and ability to handle the staff. Also, VMart is a switch hitter, so he's more effective vs LHP than AJP is. AJP didn't exactly have a stellar year catching last year, and if I recall correctly, the Indians starting staff had a superior ERA to that of the White Sox. And as for throwing out runners, with the way our pitchers hold on runners, it doesn't matter how good or bad the throwing arm is behind the plate. QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 04:28 PM) I agree with you on all by Martinez and Barfield. We just couldn't have Victor as our catcher. He's absolutely awful. And I'd take Iguchi for this year, though Barfield may be better in time. Hafner for sure over Thome, though. I bet a lot of people wouldn't want to say that. I'd take Hafner over any player besides Pujols. See my reasons for taking VMart above. Edited March 31, 2007 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 11:29 AM) Also, VMart is a switch hitter, so he's more effective vs LHP than AJP is. AJP didn't exactly have a stellar year catching last year, and if I recall correctly, the Indians starting staff had a superior ERA to that of the White Sox. And as for throwing out runners, with the way our pitchers hold on runners, it doesn't matter how good or bad the throwing arm is behind the plate. I'd take Hafner over any player besides Pujols. See my reasons for taking VMart above. AJ set the American League record (all-time) for consecutive games without an error last year. And handling the staff, he's like a coach on the field. VMart has a noodle for an arm and looks like a first baseman trying to catch. And he's clueless about calling a game... looking into the dugout practically the entire game. No comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) AJ set the American League record (all-time) for consecutive games without an error last year. And handling the staff, he's like a coach on the field. VMart has a noodle for an arm and looks like a first baseman trying to catch. And he's clueless about calling a game... looking into the dugout practically the entire game. No comparison. Errors for catchers is a pointless statistic. He still hasn't caught one ball cleanly on a play at the plate (not like it matters with the pathetic arms we have in the outfield). I love AJP, and I think his attitude was possibly the most responsible thing for our 2005 season. However, he struggled last year, and his game-calling wasn't very good. Edited March 31, 2007 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) Errors for catchers is a pointless statistic. He still hasn't caught one ball cleanly on a play at the plate (not like it matters with the pathetic arms we have in the outfield). I love AJP, and I think his attitude was possibly the most responsible thing for our 2005 season. However, he struggled last year, and his game-calling wasn't very good. There's still no comparison. VMart is the Michael Barrett of the American League, only Barrett is actually a much better catcher. That should pretty much tell the story. And AJ "struggled last year"??? What are you talking about? Edited March 31, 2007 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 04:39 PM) There's still no comparison. VMart is the Michael Barrett of the American League, only Barrett is actually a much better catcher. That should pretty much tell the story. And AJ "struggled last year"??? What are you talking about? Our pitchers were awful last year. If he's going to get all the credit for how they pitched in 2005, then he deserves some criticism for 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) Our pitchers were awful last year. If he's going to get all the credit for how they pitched in 2005, then he deserves some criticism for 2006. I don't think AJ deserves 'all the credit' for 2005. Nor does he deserves criticism for Garcia's fastball and Buerhle's location disappearing... or Contreras getting hurt. Regarding the earlier post picking Dellucci over Pods... I know there are alot of people who don't like Pods, but come on... Dellucci has a sub-.250 career average hitting in the American League. He had a career year in the National League last year. Big deal. His total career batting average (both leagues) is about the same as Pods hit last year which everyone is abusing him for. His career OBP is only slightly higher than Pods'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palehose23 Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) Which Tribe players would actually start for us? I'm not talking long term. I'm not talking multi-year 'potential'. I'm talking about 2007. If you mixed the two rosters, who would win the starting positions? Position Players First, compare the position players for the two starting lineups... Consider both offensive and defensive contributions. Konerko vs. Blake Iguchi vs. Barfield Uribe vs. Peralta Crede vs. Marte AJ vs. Martinez Pods vs. Dellucci Erstad vs. Grady Dye vs. Trot Nixon Thome vs. Hafner Starting Pitchers (the way they're slotted in the rotation) And who would you take in each of these matchups? Contreras vs. CC Garland vs. Westbrook Buerhle vs. Lee Vazquez vs. Byrd Danks vs. Sowers Peralta Martinez Dellucci Grady Hafner CC Lee Byrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 04:13 PM) Which Tribe players would actually start for us? I'm not talking long term. I'm not talking multi-year 'potential'. I'm talking about 2007. If you mixed the two rosters, who would win the starting positions? Position Players First, compare the position players for the two starting lineups... Consider both offensive and defensive contributions. Konerko vs. Blake Iguchi vs. Barfield Uribe vs. Peralta Crede vs. Marte AJ vs. Martinez Pods vs. Dellucci Erstad vs. Grady Dye vs. Trot Nixon Thome vs. Hafner Starting Pitchers (the way they're slotted in the rotation) And who would you take in each of these matchups? Contreras vs. CC Garland vs. Westbrook Buerhle vs. Lee Vazquez vs. Byrd Danks vs. Sowers Barfield, Peralta, Martinez, Dellucci, Grady, Hafner, CC, Lee, and Sowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 There is no way you can take Lee over Buerhle, just on one bad half season. You just can't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 06:43 PM) There is no way you can take Lee over Buerhle, just on one bad half season. You just can't do it. I was actually moreso comparing Lee to Garland, because assuming health im assuming Lee would of been the 2nd starter. Even so, id consider choosing him over Buerhle just because I am a big Lee fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) Delucci? Meh Sizemore, Peralta, Hafner, CC, Westbrook Edited March 31, 2007 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pale_hose Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 where is sizemore? he's the best all around player in the central... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 04:54 PM) Dellucci has a sub-.250 career average hitting in the American League. He had a career year in the National League last year. Big deal. His total career batting average (both leagues) is about the same as Pods hit last year which everyone is abusing him for. His career OBP is only slightly higher than Pods'. In Delluci's last three seasons, his OBP is right around .350. You also fail to mention the fact that Delluci slugs close to 75 points higher than Pods. I'd bet a lot of money that Delluci has a better year than Pods next year. Oh, and all the intangibles in the world don't make up for the offensive difference between Pierzynski and Martinez. The last three years, Pierzynski's OPS+ is right around 90 and Martinez' is right around 125. Really, it's not even close. Edited March 31, 2007 by CWSGuy406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 07:14 PM) In Delluci's last three seasons, his OBP is right around .350. You also fail to mention the fact that Delluci slugs close to 75 points higher than Pods. I'd bet a lot of money that Delluci has a better year than Pods next year. Oh, and all the intangibles in the world don't make up for the offensive difference between Pierzynski and Martinez. The last three years, Pierzynski's OPS+ is right around 90 and Martinez' is right around 125. Really, it's not even close. Don't forget that Dellucci will only be used against RHP, which will make him even better. The Indians have Michaels to platoon with him and Trot in RF. If Perralta can get back to 75 pct of the form he had in 2005, the Indians are going to have an amazing offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) Don't forget that Dellucci will only be used against RHP, which will make him even better. The Indians have Michaels to platoon with him and Trot in RF. If Perralta can get back to 75 pct of the form he had in 2005, the Indians are going to have an amazing offense. Their offense was never their problem, its the god awful bullpen and inconsistent starting pitching and defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 11:54 AM) I don't think AJ deserves 'all the credit' for 2005. Nor does he deserves criticism for Garcia's fastball and Buerhle's location disappearing... or Contreras getting hurt. Regarding the earlier post picking Dellucci over Pods... I know there are alot of people who don't like Pods, but come on... Dellucci has a sub-.250 career average hitting in the American League. He had a career year in the National League last year. Big deal. His total career batting average (both leagues) is about the same as Pods hit last year which everyone is abusing him for. His career OBP is only slightly higher than Pods'. Dellucci is a platoon player (can't hit lefties) who has hit .266/.368/.519 overall since his laser eye surgery and .269/.371/.526 against RHP. Podsednik is a platoon player (why else would we stand Pablo's defense in LF) who has hit .275/.340/.351 overall and .279/.342/.364 against RHP over that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Sizemore pwns everyone. I'd still take Dullucci as a platoon player. Barfield is interesting. I'll take him for the future. I Marte so yea, I'll take him probably put him in LF since he can't be no worse than Pods. I can't decide on Thome and Hafner cause I like both so I'll just stick with Big Jim. CC will be the best pitcher in our rotation easily so yes, I'll take that young stud. I'll take Lee as well. Jon and Jake are mediocre washes. Danks and Sowers you can come back to me in two years because both will be studs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 31, 2007 -> 10:24 AM) VMart is probably the worst defensive catcher in the American League. Why would you take him over AJ? Power?? In the last two years, Martinez has hit 36 home runs. AJ has hit 34. The difference in their offensive stats is mostly based on two factors: Martinez walks more He bats higher in the lineup I'd take AJ for his defense and ability to handle the staff. AJ is the most overrated player on this team. He's an average defensive catcher. Ivan Rodriguez vs. Martinez, there is a catcher comparison where the defensive level of play is so far apart that it could be the reason you'd choose one over the other. But AJ against Martinez, the fielding skills are not vastly different and Martinez is one of the best offensive catchers in the game. I would never start AJ over Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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