Jon Garland traded for Orlando Cabrera

[Mr. Showtime]

Our plan=to get Torii Kedar Hunter

 

I'm very fine with that, I'd be fine with Jones as well.

 

As others have said, I think we're in store for a few surprises from Kenny this off-season.

[WHarris1]

I'm surprised hearing that from you Willie. Sadly we couldn't package any of the sorry ass Bulls in the trade.

Yeah it really is too bad, although who would even have value at this point?

[NorthSideSox72]

Unless Gonzalez thinks Kenny is being disingenuous when he said he acquired Cabrera with the intention of resigning him, I'm not sure why his classification as a type A free agent means much.

Whoa hey, the published the $ number? $1.5M?

 

So, the total savings payroll-wise is $4.5M.

 

[Mr. Showtime]

Yeah it really is too bad, although who would even have value at this point?

 

If ever there was a case for "blow it up", it's that team, but I'll stick to baseball here.

 

I'm very interested to see what they have planned for the lead-off spot. It's great to have such a good hitter in the 2 spot, but we need someone on in front of Orlando.

[caulfield12]

Our plan=to get Torii Kedar Hunter

 

While Michael Bourn Identity wouldn't be much better than Jerry Owens, and that's questionable...is Hunter such a lock?

 

He's going to get a minimum of $60 million for four years, making him the highest played member of the team, or right up there with Buehrle. He had a really strong '07, but the two seasons prior to that were not so outstanding, with injuries and lower batting averages.

 

He strikes out a ton...do we need any more of this type of hitter with our renewed concentration on contact, advancing runners, bunting, etc.?

 

He's definitely lost a step or two defensively. I mean, is the difference between Hunter and someone like Mike Cameron worth THAT kind of money?

 

It would certainly give the White Sox some credibility heading in 08 if they signed Hunter, had Cabrera at SS and moved some other pieces to shore up the bullpen and bench, but would anyone be rejoicing (besides Mariotti?) at that deal at this point in the game?

 

Look at last off-season, the only OF signing that worked (Pods, Roberts, Pierre, Mathews) was the one that was the most universally questioned. Heck, Mathews and Meche both drew raised eyebrows, and those turned out to be two of the better signings.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Pencil in that 4.5M with the money that comes off the books with Pods/Erstad and eventually Uribe and you are talking about the club being able to add Hunter without really increasing the payroll from last year (and that doesn't factor in the money saved from the earlier Mack/Iguchi deals plus a potential Crede deal). I think the Sox could move Uribe, go after a leadoff hitter using Crede or a prospect, and still have some room to sign a japanese reliever plus make a move for a starting pitcher (that is if they don't want to rely on Danks/Floyd).

 

I'm really excited to have Cabrera in Chicago. He is a really good baseball player. The only semi negative is his age but there is no reason he can't be productive for at least 3 more years (plus he's only signed for this year but assuming he has a decent season he'll command type A compensation so the Sox could always get picks back).

[Buehrle>Wood]

While Michael Bourn Identity wouldn't be much better than Jerry Owens, and that's questionable...is Hunter such a lock?

 

He's going to get a minimum of $60 million for four years, making him the highest played member of the team, or right up there with Buehrle. He had a really strong '07, but the two seasons prior to that were not so outstanding, with injuries and lower batting averages.

 

He strikes out a ton...do we need any more of this type of hitter with our renewed concentration on contact, advancing runners, bunting, etc.?

 

He's definitely lost a step or two defensively. I mean, is the difference between Hunter and someone like Mike Cameron worth THAT kind of money?

 

It would certainly give the White Sox some credibility heading in 08 if they signed Hunter, had Cabrera at SS and moved some other pieces to shore up the bullpen and bench, but would anyone be rejoicing (besides Mariotti?) at that deal at this point in the game?

 

Look at last off-season, the only OF signing that worked (Pods, Roberts, Pierre, Mathews) was the one that was the most universally questioned. Heck, Mathews and Meche both drew raised eyebrows, and those turned out to be two of the better signings.

Wouldn't say that.

[Kalapse]

Wouldn't say that.

Nothing quite like paying $10M a year for a guy who isn't even good enough to make your playoff roster.

[Balta1701]

Nothing quite like paying $10M a year for a guy who isn't even good enough to make your playoff roster.

And who winds up in the Mitchell report.

[TheBigHurt]

Uh... so is this good or bad?

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

Nothing quite like paying $10M a year for a guy who isn't even good enough to make your playoff roster.

IIRC, He would have been starting every game in CF if it weren't for his injury. That said Matthews really tailed off in the 2nd half of the season.

[Kalapse]

IIRC, He would have been starting every game in CF if it weren't for his injury. That said Matthews really tailed off in the 2nd half of the season.

Ok then $10M a year for a guy who hit .211/.296/.392/.688 in the 2nd half of the season (.323 OBP overall) and was named in connection with an illegal distributer of Human Growth Hormone in Florida.

[Wanne]

A lot of ifs here...but can anybody see ANOTHER deal with the Angels involving PK? I know they need/want a bat...so if things fall through on all their other fronts...it wouldn't surprise me to hear the PK to the Angels for Kotch and whoever.

[Balta1701]

A lot of ifs here...but can anybody see ANOTHER deal with the Angels involving PK? I know they need/want a bat...so if things fall through on all their other fronts...it wouldn't surprise me to hear the PK to the Angels for Kotch and whoever.

I think it says a lot about the Halos that this strikes me as the first major trade they've made in a couple offseasons (anyone else think of any?) and they didn't give up one of their young guys; they gave up one of their veteran older guys who was blocking their young guy.

[caulfield12]

I think it says a lot about the Halos that this strikes me as the first major trade they've made in a couple offseasons (anyone else think of any?) and they didn't give up one of their young guys; they gave up one of their veteran older guys who was blocking their young guy.

 

 

The problem is the between Izturis, Aybar and Brandon Wood, nobody knows exactly what they have.

 

I'm sure that combination will turn out better than Brian Anderson, Sweeney and Jerry Owens in the White Sox outfield...but you're taking something of a risk to trade a veteran clubhouse leader and one of the most respected players on the team for a set of question marks with potential.

 

I know Cabrera also has a very good reputation in Cartagena, Colombia...I spent some time there in 05 and 06 and I know that he spent a significant amount of money to have the neighborhoods and streets improved in the neighborhood where he grew up and he's also the part owner (or maybe even builder) of a high rise there with his first "tenants" being his parents...so he seems like a pretty decent guy, unlike someone like Wil Cordero/Clayton/Lofton.

[beck72]

A lot of ifs here...but can anybody see ANOTHER deal with the Angels involving PK? I know they need/want a bat...so if things fall through on all their other fronts...it wouldn't surprise me to hear the PK to the Angels for Kotch and whoever.

I could see going to the LAD rather than the Angels

[Balta1701]

The problem is the between Izturis, Aybar and Brandon Wood, nobody knows exactly what they have.

 

I'm sure that combination will turn out better than Brian Anderson, Sweeney and Jerry Owens in the White Sox outfield...but you're taking something of a risk to trade a veteran clubhouse leader and one of the most respected players on the team for a set of question marks with potential.

Yes, nobody really knows what they have...but it sure seems like the Angels have made it a point to go with those guys repeatedly, and are constantly clearing spaces for them.

 

For Kendrick, they cleared out Kennedy. For Kotchman/Morales they hid Erstad. They let Glaus walk to go with McPherson, then instead of getting in on anyone bigger or trading for Crede they tried Figgins, Aybar, and had Wood play 3rd base in the minors. They let Washburn walk because they were confident their young guys could replace him. They let Percival walk to move in K-Rod. And even when they try to do so, with that Tejada deal, something winds up killing it.

 

The Angels, for better or worse, are NOT trading away their young guys in a fair deal no matter how much we may want them to. They are like the opposite of the D-Rays; they hold onto their young guys come hell or high water and let their peak value time pass that way; the D-Rays hold onto guys until they're a year from FA until their peak value has passed. Either way, you need to overpay to get one of their key group, and that ain't changing.

[witesoxfan]

I could see going to the LAD rather than the Angels

 

When they have James Loney who's put up an OPS+ of 130 in 486 career PAs?

[Balta1701]

When they have James Loney who's put up an OPS+ of 130 in 486 career PAs?

This is the team that signed and played Luis Gonzalez and Juan Pierre in front of Kemp last season, Nomar at 1b in front of Loney, spent a ton of money on Schmidt to take Billingsly's rotation spot, and on and on and on.

 

The Dodgers have an awful habit of blocking their young guys and not seeming to care that the guys blocking the kids are putting up vastly worse numbers.

[stretchstretch]

and who's leading off?

 

 

Garland's attitude sucked, even in 04-05 and Cabrera is a player with great numbers, two gold gloves, can steal, and tons of grit and cockiness that has been SORELY lacking since the post 05 trades. I live in the Anaheim area and watch the guy on TV quite a bit, he's exactly the type of personality that is needed. 33, big deal, does that automatically mean the downside of his career? I'll take chemistry guys like this who battle any day over a lax guy who doesn't seem to care if the team is winning or losing. Let's worry about winning next season instead of how much trade value the player will have in three years.....

[caulfield12]

Yes, nobody really knows what they have...but it sure seems like the Angels have made it a point to go with those guys repeatedly, and are constantly clearing spaces for them.

 

For Kendrick, they cleared out Kennedy. For Kotchman/Morales they hid Erstad. They let Glaus walk to go with McPherson, then instead of getting in on anyone bigger or trading for Crede they tried Figgins, Aybar, and had Wood play 3rd base in the minors. They let Washburn walk because they were confident their young guys could replace him. They let Percival walk to move in K-Rod. And even when they try to do so, with that Tejada deal, something winds up killing it.

 

The Angels, for better or worse, are NOT trading away their young guys in a fair deal no matter how much we may want them to. They are like the opposite of the D-Rays; they hold onto their young guys come hell or high water and let their peak value time pass that way; the D-Rays hold onto guys until they're a year from FA until their peak value has passed. Either way, you need to overpay to get one of their key group, and that ain't changing.

 

 

Well, nobody's perfect...it seems they held onto McPherson, Kotchmann, Santana and Shields, among others, way past their "sell by" dates. And even Morales would have been a huge prize for any organization to acquire a couple of seasons ago.

 

They really haven't made any BIG moves, besides signing the likes of Guerrero, Colon and Matthews. One could argue that they would have been smarter to trade Vladdy when his value was also at its peak...now that he seems to be in a little decline (in terms of physical movement), mostly due to injuries but partly due to age as well. He also has that violent swing like a Sheffield or Thome that has to create some wear and tear...not to mention the fact that he swings SO much more than any other player I've seen. But that signing by Moreno was a huge credibility lift to the organization and first salvo against McCourt and the Dodgers' dominance of the SC "mindshare," the same battle we fight with the Cubs, the Mets with the Yankees or the A's against the Giants.

 

The only real negatives the Angels have had were little moves like Hillenbrand or keeping Garret Anderson and Salmon way too long. That's the nature of franchises...they almost always tend to hold onto players one or two years too long out of sentimental value, although GA surprised many this year with his "comeback." They also did a good job of picking up Juan Rivera for little or nothing...and, like many teams, they have so-so catching.

 

 

[RockRaines]

When they have James Loney who's put up an OPS+ of 130 in 486 career PAs?

Hes going in a deal for M Cab

[whitesoxmanager]

Cabrera will help the lineup, and will help the teams D. Getting him is great.

 

The only question is, with limited trading chips we were hoping for a better return maybe something similar to the Houston get last year.

 

but ultimately teams win with pitching. we just got rid of JG the guy who took the bump and gave us a solid chance of winning every 5th day against the other teams #3/#4. now who is going to fill that void? anyhow, it sure was nice to have the chance to pull for JG up to this point in his career. i wish him the best of luck and will miss seeing him in our uniform.

 

[greg775]

All I can do is laugh.

 

Me too. Our GM is an idiot.

Wait ... he won the World Series.

 

My god, his trades suck so bad.

I mean Garland is an inning eater and can pitch.

And we get this???

Unfricking believable.

GM's must KNOW that KW is in love with the guy he wants to acquire and they just

abuse him when making the deals.

[witesoxfan]

but ultimately teams win with pitching. we just got rid of JG the guy who took the bump and gave us a solid chance of winning every 5th day against the other teams #3/#4. now who is going to fill that void? anyhow, it sure was nice to have the chance to pull for JG up to this point in his career. i wish him the best of luck and will miss seeing him in our uniform.

 

And part of pitching is defense, especially if your staff isnt striking guys out at a good rate.

 

Something I just thought of, and it's probably not a huge point but it holds some relevance, and that's that Vazquez had his best years in Montreal with Orlando Cabrera as his shortstop. Whether that's mere coincidence or not, I don't know, but it is true.