There is a huge difference between 2 yrs/$11 million and 5 yrs/$90 million.

 

Would you rather have Hunter for $15+ or Swisher, Dotel, Linebrink for $13?

I understand that those contracts are not comparable but this is nothing more than an $11M band aid. That's pretty pricey for a band aid.

Paying for potential? KW probably didn't want to lose out on such a critical area of the team, similar to the higher price for Linebrink.

 

If Crede is moved ($5.1), then the payroll will almost be unchanged with this move.

It's hard to preach potential when a player is 34 years old. Yeah, he's capable of pulling down a 3.5, but no moreso than MacDougal when he's rolling, and its hard to find a reliever with a worse track-record health wise.

 

It's a fine signing, I just don't see it as a great improvement to the ballclub that the rest do... This move really does not make the Sox any better for 2008 unless they can get some value for MacDougal which is highly doubtful.

It seems like signing Dotel - and possibly signing Colon - give us more ammunition to swing a more major trade for a lead-off hitter, a centerfielder, or more pitching. Am thinking about one of the following:

 

1. Crede and MacDougal to the Brewers for Bill Hall

 

2. MacDougal, Aardsma, Richar, Floyd, Uribe and cash to Baltimore for Roberts and Bedard. Don't laugh - the Orioles have no shortstop, need bullpen arms, would love the PR from Floyd since he is an Annapolis native, and seem determined to chop payroll.

 

3. Matt Thornton and John Shelby for Coco Crisp (if the Santana deal does not happen). Red Sox don't need much, but could use another lefty out of the pen.

 

Just some thoughts. We still need more pieces to contend ...

It seems like signing Dotel - and possibly signing Colon - give us more ammunition to swing a more major trade for a lead-off hitter, a centerfielder, or more pitching. Am thinking about one of the following:

 

1. Crede and MacDougal to the Brewers for Bill Hall

 

2. MacDougal, Aardsma, Richar, Floyd, Uribe and cash to Baltimore for Roberts and Bedard. Don't laugh - the Orioles have no shortstop, need bullpen arms, would love the PR from Floyd since he is an Annapolis native, and seem determined to chop payroll.

 

3. Matt Thornton and John Shelby for Coco Crisp (if the Santana deal does not happen). Red Sox don't need much, but could use another lefty out of the pen.

 

Just some thoughts. We still need more pieces to contend ...

 

Too late

Well it's an interesting and risky signing.

 

But I am happy that KW still saw our bullpen as being a problem, and at least now he has tried to do something about it with the acquisitions of Dotel and Linebrink.

 

Obviously with Dotel the query about him is always going to be his health.

 

He had a 3.91 ERA for the Royals in 2007, and I would take that for us.

 

I wonder if the contract has incentives involved, and whether MacDougal or Thornton could be used in a trade with either Crede or Uribe to try and get rid of their contracts.

It seems like signing Dotel - and possibly signing Colon - give us more ammunition to swing a more major trade for a lead-off hitter, a centerfielder, or more pitching. Am thinking about one of the following:

 

1. Crede and MacDougal to the Brewers for Bill Hall

 

2. MacDougal, Aardsma, Richar, Floyd, Uribe and cash to Baltimore for Roberts and Bedard. Don't laugh - the Orioles have no shortstop, need bullpen arms, would love the PR from Floyd since he is an Annapolis native, and seem determined to chop payroll.

 

3. Matt Thornton and John Shelby for Coco Crisp (if the Santana deal does not happen). Red Sox don't need much, but could use another lefty out of the pen.

 

Just some thoughts. We still need more pieces to contend ...

Option 1, while possible, does nothing for the Sox - the team doesn't need more outfielders. Option 2 will never ever happen. And Option 3 would be an awful trade for the Sox.

 

It's hard to preach potential when a player is 34 years old. Yeah, he's capable of pulling down a 3.5, but no moreso than MacDougal when he's rolling, and its hard to find a reliever with a worse track-record health wise.

 

It's a fine signing, I just don't see it as a great improvement to the ballclub that the rest do... This move really does not make the Sox any better for 2008 unless they can get some value for MacDougal which is highly doubtful.

I think this signing actually helps MacDougal in 2008.

 

He doesn't like the high pressure situations, so now Mac can pitch in just the 6th/7th innings, and hopefully get back to where he was in 2006.

 

And that will make our whole bullpen better.

I wonder if the contract has incentives involved, and whether MacDougal or Thornton could be used in a trade with either Crede or Uribe to try and get rid of their contracts.

 

That's what I and others have been hinting at - it seems like the team is actually making it such that they have a few bullets to trade with. And at this point, it really seems like a starting pitcher is the only thing the team really needs badly.

 

Still not on Sox website.

I'm concerned about one major thing, his injury riddled history. He has a great arm though and when healthy I love having it in the pen, but I question the total sense of this deal. The pen, on paper, is clearly massivly improved but I still question with the Sox having so much of this money tied up to guys that may not even have a roster/starters spot (ie, Uribe/Crede/Contreras (who sucks in my book until he proves otherwise).

 

Definitely didn't see the Sox adding another starter.

Yikes. That's a lot of cash for a set up guy with arm problems.

 

Let's give Colon 7 mil for a year than.

The White Sox have agreed to terms with Octavio Dotel on a two-year contract worth $11 million, according to Impacto Deportivo.

Dotel will have done quite well if he gets a guaranteed two-year deal for that much money despite not throwing more than 30 2/3 innings in a season since 2004. He showed that injuries haven't sapped him of dominant stuff in limited action last season and would potentially give the White Sox an elite late-inning setup man in front of closer Bobby Jenks.

Still not on Sox website.

Could they have made a mistake? rojo instead of blanco?

It seems like signing Dotel - and possibly signing Colon - give us more ammunition to swing a more major trade for a lead-off hitter, a centerfielder, or more pitching. Am thinking about one of the following:

 

1. Crede and MacDougal to the Brewers for Bill Hall

 

2. MacDougal, Aardsma, Richar, Floyd, Uribe and cash to Baltimore for Roberts and Bedard. Don't laugh - the Orioles have no shortstop, need bullpen arms, would love the PR from Floyd since he is an Annapolis native, and seem determined to chop payroll.

 

3. Matt Thornton and John Shelby for Coco Crisp (if the Santana deal does not happen). Red Sox don't need much, but could use another lefty out of the pen.

 

Just some thoughts. We still need more pieces to contend ...

If the Sox could pull any of these moves off, that would be sweet for us! I like the Dotel signing---now I say bring the butterball back. Join us, Bartolo!

I'm concerned about one major thing, his injury riddled history. He has a great arm though and when healthy I love having it in the pen, but I question the total sense of this deal. The pen, on paper, is clearly massivly improved but I still question with the Sox having so much of this money tied up to guys that may not even have a roster/starters spot (ie, Uribe/Crede/Contreras (who sucks in my book until he proves otherwise).

 

Definitely didn't see the Sox adding another starter.

Aardsma, M-Mac, Masset, Haeger, Prinz, Sisco, Myers, and Day posted an ERA of 7.88 in 158 IP of relief. If Dotel gives us 75 IP with a 4.50 ERA, this will be a huge upgrade.

Edited January 18, 200818 yr by RME JICO

Why does everyone hate MacDougal? He had a bad year last year but there were like 4 Whitesox that didn't. He was lights out in 2006 and has been alot healthier than Dotel.

 

I like the signing, but you can never have too many bullpen arms.

I like the signing. I actually mentioned in July and August on here that Kenny should go after Linebrink and Dotel and many of you criticized the suggestion. Im glad to see we signed them both. This signing makes Macdougal expendable, he can probably be involved with a deal as a package with Uribe or Crede.

Aardsma, M-Mac, Masset, Haeger, Prinz, Sisco, Myers, and Day posted an ERA of 7.88 in 158 IP of relief. If Dotel gives us 75 IP with a 4.50 ERA, this will be a huge upgrade.

I don't disagree, plus I'm figuring between at worse you have MacDougall and Dotel who combined are able to do what a normal reliever could workload wise (assuming one or both of them have a stint on the DL) all while posting a good ERA.

 

Mac/Dotel/Jenks all have filthy stuff, Linebrink is steady eddy, Wasserman is steady eady with a different look and than Thornton/Logan both are solid lefties. God damn, I like that pen if it works out and financially it isn't horrible, plus if you think about it, when JEnks is due a fat contract you lose a couple other contracts off your books in the pen.

 

The Sox now have Aardsma, MMac, Sisco, Haeger who all could be valuable to some team or another. I'm not saying they will be good, but if I'm the Drays or some crap team why not buy these guys for cheap and see if a full season turns them into something.

Why does everyone hate MacDougal? He had a bad year last year but there were like 4 Whitesox that didn't. He was lights out in 2006 and has been alot healthier than Dotel.

 

I like the signing, but you can never have too many bullpen arms.

MacDougal struggles under pressure, which isn't what you want from a late inning reliever. Even in 2006, his numbers with men on base were significantly worse than Thornton and others (I posted a bunch of those numbers here a while back). Plus, MacDougal has a repeated history of collapsing, and having to go back to the minors before returning. And finally, I've read him saying things that lead me to believe he just doesn't give a s***. All that combined and I think he's not worth the money, nor is he as good as Jenks, Thornton, Wassermann, Logan, Linebrink, Dotel* (if healthy), or frankly any number of those AA and AAA bullpen prospects.

 

It seems like signing Dotel - and possibly signing Colon - give us more ammunition to swing a more major trade for a lead-off hitter, a centerfielder, or more pitching. Am thinking about one of the following:

 

1. Crede and MacDougal to the Brewers for Bill Hall

 

2. MacDougal, Aardsma, Richar, Floyd, Uribe and cash to Baltimore for Roberts and Bedard. Don't laugh - the Orioles have no shortstop, need bullpen arms, would love the PR from Floyd since he is an Annapolis native, and seem determined to chop payroll.

 

3. Matt Thornton and John Shelby for Coco Crisp (if the Santana deal does not happen). Red Sox don't need much, but could use another lefty out of the pen.

 

Just some thoughts. We still need more pieces to contend ...

 

 

I love the signing also but I have to believe that this pushes Linebrink up to the 7th inning, hopefully.

 

1. The Brewers already have too many arms so they don't need Mac and they know Crede is a 1 year rental for them so I doubt this could happen.

 

2. I'll answer later when I stop laughing. Baltimore sending 2 All-Star caliber players for....umm...a pile of mediocrity.

 

3. I'm not sure that helps the Sox so much.

I am satisfied with the signing........if in fact true. I haven't seen any us major sites reporting it yet. But kw went out and spent some money on the bullpen which he needed to do. If we can get another starter possibly bartolo or wouldn't it be something if Kw shocked the baseball world and snuck in and traded for Bedard! Hey i can dream right? Kw has shocked us before!

i like it. at worst we don't do well and trade him for some quality prospects at the trade deadline. look what texas got for gagne. they got a potential #3 starter and 2 spects.

 

i hope we start unloading some garbage in uribe, macdougal, and aardsma. try and get some low level high ceiling guys for them maybe?

 

also, we don't have enough pieces on this team to get bedard alone, never the less roberts.

 

fields, richar, floyd, danks, egbert, shelby

I don't disagree, plus I'm figuring between at worse you have MacDougall and Dotel who combined are able to do what a normal reliever could workload wise (assuming one or both of them have a stint on the DL) all while posting a good ERA.

 

Mac/Dotel/Jenks all have filthy stuff, Linebrink is steady eddy, Wasserman is steady eady with a different look and than Thornton/Logan both are solid lefties. God damn, I like that pen if it works out and financially it isn't horrible, plus if you think about it, when JEnks is due a fat contract you lose a couple other contracts off your books in the pen.

 

The Sox now have Aardsma, MMac, Sisco, Haeger who all could be valuable to some team or another. I'm not saying they will be good, but if I'm the Drays or some crap team why not buy these guys for cheap and see if a full season turns them into something.

Hell, if we just got their career averages we would be looking really good.

 

I like the fact that we now have some trading chips that would not have an impact on the team. You could throw Masset in there as well.

Does anyone else think that this signing means the Sox won't sign Colon or another starter ? They decided to bolster the pen even more because they are sticking with this rotation ?

The only question with Dotel is his health. It allows Bobby to take a day off and maximize his effectiveness. And more importantly, it gives more flexibility. Last year Ozzie was afraid to use Bobby in certain situations and only wanted to use him when we had a lead late do to the crap in the pen. When Dotel is on the mound he is nasty and it gives us a better back end of the bullpen. This is a pretty good signing.