Official 2007-08 College Basketball Thread

[CanOfCorn]

No offense, but your wrong. I believe in second chances, but not for everybody, and certainly not everybody (in fact, hardly anybody) has been convicted of a felony. I'll be glad to throw stones, because my house is not made of glass in the sense that I have yet to be convicted of a felony, or any crime for that matter. But yeah, second chances are deserved, but there is a line and Jamar crossed the one where you even deserve a second chance.

 

If the school, the coaching staff, team and most importantly Brian Carlwell can forgive him...he does his time (which he did)...then you know what, nobody cares about what you or I think. He's going to be on this team next year, like it or not. You want to no longer be a fan...fine. The team will play 30+ games next year and the next year and the next year.

 

So, let's just drop it because none of us have a say in it other than to de-fanify ourselves.

[Soxbadger]

Are you serious? If you don't think this is a historically bad Big 10, your not watching the games. I won't even argue this point because it's a waste of time and not even close. And the reason 4 teams can win the league is a point to my argument, since (1) there isn't one or two clubs that are really good and (2) There are 7 teams that completely suck and can barely win games behind the top 4. I mean, I've seen you make some asinine arguments but this is right up there.

 

You said it was the worst in 10 years.

 

I already proved that the top 5 team are better this year than they were last year outside of basically 1 team (OSU).

 

Your argument is ridiculous, Wisconsin was rated #1 last year so if they are a better team this year how are they not "really good".

 

As for the bottom 7 thats once again not true.

 

OSU has not even played IU or Wis. Played Purdue and MSU on the road and lost to both by less than 10. Likely that they will win against those 4 teams atleast 1 time. 9-4 OOC

 

Minnesota, Lost to MSU by 5,6. Lost to Indiana by 5. OOC record 10-2

 

Iowa took IU and Wisconsin to the limit. Iowa is 7-4 OOC. Iowa contrary to your information has already beaten MSU

 

Illinois should have beaten Indiana and i wouldnt be shocked if they beat Wisconsin at Assembly Hall. Illinois is 8-5 OOC

 

NU is terrible but they are no better or worse than last year. But went 7-4 OOC

 

PSU lost their top player Claxton at the start of big 10 play, was 7-4 OOC, is 3-7 in conference (beat MSU).

 

Michigan in a transition.

 

Now on to the Big Boys:

 

Wisconsin: 10-2 OOC (lost to Duke, MU) beat Texas @ Texas. Only IC loss @ Purdue over all record 19-3 ranked 8th

 

Indiana 11-2 OOC (lost to Uconn, Xavier) only IC loss @ Wisconsin, over all record 19-3

 

MSU 12-1 OOC, IC 7-2 (lost to PSU and Iowa not a top 4 team how can that be?) 19-3 over all

 

Purdue 9-4 OOC, IC 9-1, 18-5 over all

 

Now lets compare to last year:

 

Big Ten Conference

TEAM CONF. W-L OVERALL W-L

Ohio State 15-1 30-3

Wisconsin 13-3 29-5

Indiana 10-6 20-10

Illinois 9-7 23-11

Purdue 9-7 21-11

Iowa 9-7 17-14

Michigan State 8-8 22-11

Michigan 8-8 21-12

Minnesota 3-13 9-22

Northwestern 2-14 13-18

Penn State 2-14 11-19

 

Hmm thats odd, notice how outside of 3 teams (OSU, MSU and Illinois) every single team is better this year.

 

Your argument is ridiculous, its clear that you dont even watch the Big 10 except to knock it and say that its a terrible league. I often wonder why you talk so much about it when you go to NIU, but I have my feelings and Im not going to venture into conjecture.

 

So lets break it down:

 

(1) there isn't one or two clubs that are really good

 

Untrue, how can Wisconsin ranked #8 be not good. How can Indiana being #13 not be good. How can MSU being ranked 10 not be good. According to this argument only teams ranked above Wisconsin could be "really good". IE the only good teams in basketball are:

 

Memphis, Duke, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Georgetown, Tennessee

 

Every team after that sucks, they cant possibly win the tourney because you say they "arent really good". I guess that we should just end the season now.

 

Here is the power 16 according to espn http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking...008&week=14

 

Big Ten has 3 teams, can you name which conference has more, because clearly atleast 3-4 conferences must have more because the big 10 is "horrid".

 

There are 7 teams that completely suck and can barely win games behind the top 4. I mean, I've seen you make some asinine arguments but this is right up there.

 

Once again completely not true. You havent even watched the big 10 this season if you dont know this, my guess is you dont have BTN thus dont get to watch the majority of games.

 

Iowa beat MSU (has a winning OOC record)

PSU beat MSU (has a winning OOC record)

OSU which you called horrid, hasnt even played most of the top teams in the Big 10.

 

I mean if you have any facts to back up your opinion on go ahead. Bring me some facts on how this is the worst big 10 in the last 10 years.

 

Because otherwise its flat out just your opinion.

 

And is patently untrue 10 years ago Wisconsin had only been to the NCAA tournament 3 times. Now it goes every year and is considered a lock. Do you really have any clue about Big 10 history? Or do you just think no one will call you out on this?

Edited February 9, 2008 by Soxbadger

[hitlesswonder]

No offense, but your wrong. I believe in second chances, but not for everybody, and certainly not everybody (in fact, hardly anybody) has been convicted of a felony. I'll be glad to throw stones, because my house is not made of glass in the sense that I have yet to be convicted of a felony, or any crime for that matter. But yeah, second chances are deserved, but there is a line and Jamar crossed the one where you even deserve a second chance.

 

I guess I wouldn't go that far. I think this country takes drunk driving way too lightly, but it's not clear to me that a lengthy prison term would have been appropriate. Anyway, I won't pretend to know what should have happened with Jamar Smith. But if UI decided he shouldn't play basketball for them anymore, I hardly think that's draconian. He'd be free to play ball someplace else and I'm sure there's some school that would give him a ride. Or UI could have kept him off the team but allowed him to keep his scholarship if he wanted; that would have been nice since it punishes both Smith and then program.

[Dick Allen]

So do all of you who think Smith should have been kicked off the team not believe in second chances? You're all a bunch of hypocrites. I will promise you that all of you have been given 2nd chances in your life for messing up. Forget all of you for saying s*** like Smith should be kicked out of school. A 20-year-old kid made a huge mistake, but from what I've gathered he has been a model citizen since it happened. I guarantee you he'd be kicked off the team if so much as a peep is heard from him. He's going to end up doing good by sharing his incident with younger kids for years to come, and helping them stray from drunk driving.

 

I feel very strongly about this, and I can't stand seeing people post all this s*** about Smith like they've never done wrong in their life... Let those throw the first stone who have never sinned. Oh wait, that's none of you.

My dad is a U of I grad. He went to college when he was 16, and was caught using a fake ID to get into a bar. He was thrown out of school for a year, basically the same penalty as Smith. It seems the offenses are quite different, and one was committed by a 16 year old and 1 by a 20 year old. Why do I have the feeling that if Smith was just a fringe player the penalty would have been much more severe?

[Rex Hudler]

i will be really happy when this entire thing is behind both illinois and indiana fans. in general i tend to think they are similar fanbases, classy, with a keen eye for tradition, and both possessing a lunatic fringe that embarrasses even fellow fans.

 

debating who was right and who was wrong in the situation is entirely pointless now. i'm not proud of how some people acted last night, but i also think it was relatively tame compared to what people were suggesting was going to happen. of course, i know some indiana fans will take issue with that and claim that last night was some horrendous episode, but to me they were going to say that whatever happened.

 

i think the worst part is that the two people at the center of the thing (weber and e.j.) come out of it with a little bit of a stain even though neither really deserves this degree of negative attention.

 

i firmly believe gordon could have handled the situation better, but he's a kid and you can't hold it against him until the end of time. i think it is really unfortunate that it has to be brought up with regularity when you talk about him. he is a rare talent, and as weber said last night, one of the best freshman he's seen in his 20 years in the league. we should be talking about that, not some extraneous bullcrap.

 

as for weber, this has just become another opportunity to those who already have an axe to grind against him to chirp about what he should and shouldn't do. i love it when people try to put themselves in his shoes and dictate how he should have handled all of the situations that have grown out of this. gmafb. for whatever you want to say about weber (and he has plenty of faults) he's someone who for the most part has unwavering dedication to and from those who have played for him and coached with and against him. that tells me a helluva lot more about him than any of the tripe associated with this entire mess.

 

nice post doc

[Rex Hudler]

Here are my thoughts on last night....

 

I could give a crap less about the chanting and yelling at Gordon and Sampson. In fact, I'd have been disappointed if Illini fans weren't all over them in that regard. I could do without the F U Gordon chants, but in the grand scheme of things, big damned deal. IU and Gordon expected to walk into a nasty atmosphere last night.

 

I don't think, nor I would hope that anyone would condone the throwing of anything at the Gordon family or any IU fans. That is not appropriate at ANY sporting event. However, 16,000 people weren't doing it, so it can be chalked up to a few idiots. There seem to be a few in almost every crowd. Worse has happened at ACC games. None of that makes it okay, however.

 

Anyone who says the Gordon family should not have been there is just wrong. They have every right to watch their son play and to expect a safe environment. They SHOULDN'T have to deal with verbal attacks, but again, I think they expected at least some of it. When items start raining down on you from above in that kind of atmosphere it is natural to feel threatened and worried it could get out of hand. Their reaction, whatever it truly was, is probably normal based on the situation.

 

Lastly, I didn't think the chest bump what that big of a deal. I don't like it. I think it shows that from the beginning the Illini were going to try to do everything they could to intimidate Gordon. Basically they turned it into a playground type game with lots of bumping and talking. Whatever. You have to be able to handle those kinds of situations and in the grand scheme of things it really wasn't a big deal (aside from the fact that it did get into Gordon's head immediately). The biggest problem with something like that is that it can only encourage the type of atmosphere that ultimately ends up with people throwing things. Fortunately, it did not get worse than it did. It's easy to sit here and type and criticize, but minus a few things here and there, I thought the crowd was exactly like it should have been last night.

 

I think this game actually helped IU. It made them play tough. It made them deal with adverse conditions. For that, I think UI for preparing IU for later games down the road. Now we will see if IU can actually translate that into wins.

[CWSGuy406]

I feel ill.

[Palehosefan]

Funny stuff, BC with 19 fouls to Duke's 8 so far.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Heads?

[Heads22]

Jesus Christ.

[WilliamTell]

Jesus Christ.

 

Man I was going for ISU too. Shoot. Sorry from over here at UNI.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

what happened?

[Heads22]

what happened?

 

Blew a 13 point second half lead and flat lined in OT, much like we did against you guys last year.

 

The refs were f***ing horrible and you'll get fans from both sides to tell you as much, but our lack of guard play and Craig Brackins being worthless cost us.

[santo=dorf]

I guess this is the same program who supports attempted murderers............

Who, or what the hell are you talking about? They aren't Baylor.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Who, or what the hell are you talking about? They aren't Baylor.

 

 

 

Jamar Smith and Brian Carlwell and their fun ride in the snow.

[santo=dorf]

Jamar Smith and Brian Carlwell and their fun ride in the snow.

Kansas must have a hell of a law program. Do you even know how attempted murder is defined? Do you know what a "motive" is?

Edited February 10, 2008 by santo=dorf

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Kansas must have a hell of a law program. Do you even know how attempted murder is defined? Do you know what a "motive" is?

 

 

He left his teammate basically dead in a car.....hes lucky he lived and it wasn't murder.

[Soxbadger]

A person commits attempted murder when, with the intent to commit murder, he or she does any act constituting a substantial step toward the commission of that offense. 720 ILCS 5/8--4(a)

 

http://www.romingerlegal.com/illinois/illi...w_2/2001010.htm

 

Voluntary Manslaughter

 

A person who unintentionally kills an individual, without lawful justification, commits involuntary manslaughter if he recklessly performs an action which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm. However, if the reckless action that causes death involves a vehicle, then the crime is reckless homicide.

 

 

http://www.illinois-criminaldefense.com/pr...anslaughter.htm

 

So no it is not attempted murder.

 

And to keep this thread on topic...

 

Should be an interesting game at the Kohl Center.

Edited February 10, 2008 by Soxbadger

[Jimbo's Drinker]

My mistake, either way Weber is a real piece of work for letting this guy play next year.

[CWSGuy406]

Someone got a picture of Rick Pitino's all-white suit tonight?

 

He changed it at halftime, kind of funny (odd?)...

[Jimbo's Drinker]

KU beats Baylor...onward to Austin.

[ChWRoCk2]

Purdue beats Wisconsin for the second time this season and is first in the big ten.

 

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Purdue beats Wisconsin for the second time this season and is first in the big ten.

 

congrats.....im very impressed with your squad.

[whitesoxfan101]

Going into this year, I thought Purdue would get better as the season went on, make the tourney as an 8 or 9 seed, and be the favorites to win the league next year. While the last part is true (70 of the 72 points they scored tonight will be back on the roster next year), it's also clear that Matt Painter is one of the fastest rising coaches in the nation (and certainly the best coach in the league with SIU ties) and that Purdue might win the league this year. If they can defend their home turf Tuesday in a tough game against Michigan State, they will win out (sorry Ohio State, your not that good) with the exception of perhaps their trip to Indiana, and at least win a share of the Big 10. It's amazing the progress they have made.

 

Oh, and Jimbo: Your still the best team I've seen this year, and yes you beat a tourney bound Baylor team by 10 tonight, but 90 points? 57 in a half? Letting them make 12 three pointers? Gonna have to work on that defense buddy, or else you'll lose in the Elite 8 again.

[ChWRoCk2]

Going into this year, I thought Purdue would get better as the season went on, make the tourney as an 8 or 9 seed, and be the favorites to win the league next year. While the last part is true (70 of the 72 points they scored tonight will be back on the roster next year), it's also clear that Matt Painter is one of the fastest rising coaches in the nation (and certainly the best coach in the league with SIU ties) and that Purdue might win the league this year. If they can defend their home turf Tuesday in a tough game against Michigan State, they will win out (sorry Ohio State, your not that good) with the exception of perhaps their trip to Indiana, and at least win a share of the Big 10. It's amazing the progress they have made.

Purdue has just had a really surprising year in my eyes. They lost Landry and Teague and I thought the year would be mediocre at best. Just goes to show what one good year of recruiting can do for a squad. A bunch of underclassmen are carrying this team and should only get better.