Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) Correct, Ben would have to waive for his Bird Rights and NTC. That ain't happening. With that said, I'm willing to clear the whole frontcourt for Amare. I hope it happens. As a guy who's going to be an unrestricted FA anyway this offseason, what would Gordon lose if he waived his Bird rights to allow a trade? According to the Wikipedia entry on the cap, if Gordon were to waive his rights to allow a trade, the Suns would be able to sign him under the same Bird rights as those rights are traded with him. I don't think it would cost him any money unless he thinks the Bulls are going to come up with a better offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 12:30 PM) As a guy who's going to be an unrestricted FA anyway this offseason, what would Gordon lose if he waived his Bird rights to allow a trade? According to the Wikipedia entry on the cap, if Gordon were to waive his rights to allow a trade, the Suns would be able to sign him under the same Bird rights as those rights are traded with him. I don't think it would cost him any money unless he thinks the Bulls are going to come up with a better offer. I don't quite get what you're trying to say. How would he still have Bird rights with Phoenix if he has to waive them to allow a trade? That would mean that they would have to have enough space under the cap to sign him to an extension, which they don't. It would make him a mortal lock to be a FA and rule out any sign and trades possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 10:42 AM) I don't quite get what you're trying to say. How would he still have Bird rights with Phoenix if he has to waive them to allow a trade? That would mean that they would have to have enough space under the cap to sign him to an extension, which they don't. It would make him a mortal lock to be a FA and rule out any sign and trades possibilities. Perhaps the most well-known of the NBA's salary cap exceptions, it is so named because the Boston Celtics were the first team permitted to exceed the salary cap to re-sign one of their own players (in that case, Larry Bird). Free agents who qualify for this exception are called "qualifying veteran free agents" or "Bird Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception falls under the auspices of the Veteran Free Agent exception. In a nutshell, the Larry Bird exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, at an amount up to the maximum salary. To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination thereof. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. Bird-exception contracts can be up to six years in length.Stealing from that article. If I'm reading this right, I think it says that the new team still would be able to use the bird exception to perform a sign and trade with him if that's what they wanted to do. Am I wrong? I don't know the NBA cap that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Yes, you are reading it wrong. The Bird rights can't be traded with him if he no longer has Bird rights. Quoted from NBA Salary Cap FAQ: [A player can not be traded ]Without the player's consent when the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, the team loses its Larry Bird/Early Bird rights, and the player is considered a Non-Bird free agent. Edited February 9, 2009 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 According to the Daily Herald, the rumor is Miami would be willing to offer Marion and his expiring $17 million contract and Michael Beasley for Stoudamire and some cap matching filler. Could the Bulls beat that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 11:09 AM) According to the Daily Herald, the rumor is Miami would be willing to offer Marion and his expiring $17 million contract and Michael Beasley for Stoudamire and some cap matching filler. Could the Bulls beat that? Depends on how they value Tyrus vs. Beasley after seeing them both in the league, and what type of cap relief they're looking for. Honestly though, it'd be really tough. Could beat it by including Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 01:09 PM) According to the Daily Herald, the rumor is Miami would be willing to offer Marion and his expiring $17 million contract and Michael Beasley for Stoudamire and some cap matching filler. Could the Bulls beat that? no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Why would the Heat give up on Beasley so soon. for the amount of minutes he plays he puts up pretty solid numbers and is just a rookie. He could definitely be a better player than Amare in near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 11:41 AM) Why would the Heat give up on Beasley so soon. for the amount of minutes he plays he puts up pretty solid numbers and is just a rookie. He could definitely be a better player than Amare in near future. Because any team with D-Wade on it is going to be locked in to "Win now" mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) Depends on how they value Tyrus vs. Beasley after seeing them both in the league, and what type of cap relief they're looking for. Honestly though, it'd be really tough. Could beat it by including Rose. Then it crosses the line into ass-rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) Why would the Heat give up on Beasley so soon. for the amount of minutes he plays he puts up pretty solid numbers and is just a rookie. He could definitely be a better player than Amare in near future. Pat Riley's never been a fan of his. If he has the chance to get a dominant young big, I think he'll definitely do so. Cook + Marion + Beasley for Amare will prob work for both sides. The Bulls will definitely have to give up TT, and maybe Ben Gordon to get a deal done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 The only 2 players Im set on keeping on this current Bulls team is Rose and Deng. Deng despite his dissapointing season I still think he is the ideal 3rd scorer on a good/great team. That and his contract isnt favorable for trading anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 That seems kind of weird to me that Phoenix would take Marion back after trading him last season and moving to more of a half-court system. Plus one of the stories was that he was a problem in the locker room. Here's another thought: would Miami be better off just keeping Beasley and Marion, waiting until the off-season, and then signing either Boozer or Millsap? I think it's debateable. However, I think that makes quite a bit of sense from both sides. Miami seems to desperately want more length and post-scoring up front and Wade and Amare would be a scary combination, and Phoenix would get considerable cap space and a potential stud in Beasley. That seems to be a hard offer to beat unless they can somehow exchange 2010 big men with Toronto or get Lamarcus Aldridge. Golden State giving up Biedrins or Ellis is another interesting one, though personally I wouldn't touch Monta right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 03:51 PM) That seems kind of weird to me that Phoenix would take Marion back after trading him last season and moving to more of a half-court system. Plus one of the stories was that he was a problem in the locker room. Here's another thought: would Miami be better off just keeping Beasley and Marion, waiting until the off-season, and then signing either Boozer or Millsap? I think it's debateable. However, I think that makes quite a bit of sense from both sides. Miami seems to desperately want more length and post-scoring up front and Wade and Amare would be a scary combination, and Phoenix would get considerable cap space and a potential stud in Beasley. That seems to be a hard offer to beat unless they can somehow exchange 2010 big men with Toronto or get Lamarcus Aldridge. Golden State giving up Biedrins or Ellis is another interesting one, though personally I wouldn't touch Monta right now. It would be for the expiring contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 01:09 PM) According to the Daily Herald, the rumor is Miami would be willing to offer Marion and his expiring $17 million contract and Michael Beasley for Stoudamire and some cap matching filler. Could the Bulls beat that? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Phoenix turned that deal down already. Either that or they weren't interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 01:34 PM) I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Phoenix turned that deal down already. Either that or they weren't interested. If they turned down an offer like that, then first of all they're crazy, and secondly Amare won't be moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 04:21 PM) If they turned down an offer like that, then first of all they're crazy, and secondly Amare won't be moving. Unless they saw the re-acquisition of Marion as a PR nightmare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) Unless they saw the re-acquisition of Marion as a PR nightmare? Clearly the idea would be to cut him immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 04:33 PM) Clearly the idea would be to cut him immediately. Personally, if I'm getting Beasley in the offer, and that cap space it's a done deal. So either that offer was complete BS or as you stated Amare ain't goin' nowheres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 02:35 PM) Personally, if I'm getting Beasley in the offer, and that cap space it's a done deal. So either that offer was complete BS or as you stated Amare ain't goin' nowheres. Perhaps the Suns really think they can win this year and therefore are still looking for pieces that can play with Shaq and Nash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) Perhaps the Suns really think they can win this year and therefore are still looking for pieces that can play with Shaq and Nash? If that's the case, the Detroit offer is the best, but they'd be idiotic to think they could keep up with the big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 9, 2009 -> 04:35 PM) Personally, if I'm getting Beasley in the offer, and that cap space it's a done deal. So either that offer was complete BS or as you stated Amare ain't goin' nowheres. Exactly.... the Suns aren't getting a better offer than that. If they turn that down, maybe they are just trying to jumpstart a sluggish team my threatening to break it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Chicago The Front Runner: The Chicago Bulls might have the pieces for a deal, it now comes down does Chicago really want to make a deal? Sources near the Bulls said they are still not sold that landing Amar'e makes them a better basketball team now or in the future. It seems some of the waffling revolves around Tyrus Thomas who over the past week has averaged better than 15 points per game, and has a double-double or close to it, in his last 7 games. The Bulls' discussions for Stoudemire are said to include Thabo Sefolosha, the ending contracts of Drew Gooden and Cedric Simmons and Thomas. It seems that this may be the deal that gets it done from Phoenix's point of view, but Bulls sources said neither Bulls' GM John Paxson or Vinny Del Negro have agreed that this deal works for the Bulls. The belief is this thing will not get resolved before the All-Star break, and that the Bulls want to "sleep on it" for a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Sounds ever so familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Who needs Kobe? Who needs Pau Gasol? Who needs Garnett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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