Im curious as to what everyone thinks a trade between the Bulls and Suns will look like, realistically

Im curious as to what everyone thinks a trade between the Bulls and Suns will look like, realistically

My guess would be Tyrus, Thabo and future draft picks.

My guess would be Tyrus, Thabo and future draft picks.

 

Add in Gooden as they want his expiring as well as Cedric Simmons.

Add in Gooden as they want his expiring as well as Cedric Simmons.

The more I think about it the less I like that deal. Blah.

Add in Gooden as they want his expiring as well as Cedric Simmons.

Good point.

Zach Zaidman annoys me. This evening he said that Amare gets a lot of points outside. As evidence, he pointed out that Amare has a 40%+ shooting percentage from the 3-point stripe. He did not mention that he has all of 7 attempts this year.

The more I think about it the less I like that deal. Blah.

 

You and pax both.

You and pax both.

 

buyer's remorse... I dunno, if we were trading Tyrus and he had already put up 2 solid seasons and looked like a future all-star (or close to it) I'd be more hesitant to pull the trigger. However, Tyrus hasn't been that consistent, has skipped practice, does look lost on offense at times, and has run hot and cold. We're not trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler... were trading a guy who has "potential" and has gone undeveloped for the past 2+ seasons.

 

Amare is legit, young, and will playing in his 4th All-Star game in what 6 seasons? I'm sorry he's not Kevin Garnett, but he's the best we can get, and if it fails you can let him walk and try to find another impact player in 2010 (not a great idea).

 

I'm still on board.

The trade is the biggest no-brainer of all time.

The trade is the biggest no-brainer of all time.

 

 

Nah, its the second biggest no brainer. Kobe was the first

Nah, its the second biggest no brainer. Kobe was the first

 

But giving up Luol Deng is too much just for Kobe...

Nah, its the second biggest no brainer. Kobe was the first

 

maybe its positive spin coming from the bulls people... but from what the media has portrayed, the Lakers were never seriously considering moving Kobe. If thats true, than the only thing you can blame Pax for is not killing the speculation earlier -- because it obviously had an effect on this team early on in the year.

maybe its positive spin coming from the bulls people... but from what the media has portrayed, the Lakers were never seriously considering moving Kobe. If thats true, than the only thing you can blame Pax for is not killing the speculation earlier -- because it obviously had an effect on this team early on in the year.

 

Well, we could replace it with "Pau Gasol" or "Kevin Garnett", there have been too many no brainer trades that the Bulls didnt jump on in the past couple years. Any time a trade doesnt happen, GMs always insist it was just speculation, but where there is smoke, there is fire

buyer's remorse... I dunno, if we were trading Tyrus and he had already put up 2 solid seasons and looked like a future all-star (or close to it) I'd be more hesitant to pull the trigger. However, Tyrus hasn't been that consistent, has skipped practice, does look lost on offense at times, and has run hot and cold. We're not trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler... were trading a guy who has "potential" and has gone undeveloped for the past 2+ seasons.

 

Amare is legit, young, and will playing in his 4th All-Star game in what 6 seasons? I'm sorry he's not Kevin Garnett, but he's the best we can get, and if it fails you can let him walk and try to find another impact player in 2010 (not a great idea).

 

I'm still on board.

Tyrus is not the player he has showed the last few games, but he has helped his value, which is nice. D Rose is the key to everything and if you think that Amare is better than any player you can draft or sign in the next few years, then trade the whole f***ing team for him. As long as you have Rose+Amare you are prob a playoff team anyway, or at least very close.

Well, we could replace it with "Pau Gasol" or "Kevin Garnett", there have been too many no brainer trades that the Bulls didnt jump on in the past couple years. Any time a trade doesnt happen, GMs always insist it was just speculation, but where there is smoke, there is fire

Gasol would have gone to the Bulls, but the Bulls didn't want to go over the luxury tax. That's JR's decision, not Paxson. The Bulls didn't have the match-up for Garnett. Al Jefferson is a little more highly regarded than anything Paxson could have put together.

Well, we could replace it with "Pau Gasol" or "Kevin Garnett", there have been too many no brainer trades that the Bulls didnt jump on in the past couple years. Any time a trade doesnt happen, GMs always insist it was just speculation, but where there is smoke, there is fire

 

I agree with you for the most part, and I am not a Pax apologist. However, it does seem like Pax was on the wrong end of some bad timing. When the Lakers got Pau, they were able to get him for expiring contracts because the Grizz (for whatever reason) decided they'd rather have the cap space. When Pax was in negotiations for Pau they wanted Deng et el... now you can argue he should have pulled the trigger right there, but at the time people were a lot higher on Deng then they are now (too high on him).

 

I'm not exactly sure what happened with KG, however, Al Jefferson is a better player than anyone we've had on the team since MJ. It's hard to make an argument that the T-Wolves were silly for taking Al Jefferson over a package of Deng, Gordon etc...

 

Again, I'm not going to sit here and make excuses for Pax... I think he's made a bunch of mistakes, and he probably is too gunshy for my taste, I'm just not sure how much you can really blame him for some things.

maybe its positive spin coming from the bulls people... but from what the media has portrayed, the Lakers were never seriously considering moving Kobe. If thats true, than the only thing you can blame Pax for is not killing the speculation earlier -- because it obviously had an effect on this team early on in the year.

 

I always understood that Kobe killed the deal. Garnett was a matter of Boston not wanting what the Bulls had to offer. I never saw anything about the Bulls turning down MN. Gasol was the only deal I saw that the Bulls actually killed.

Tyrus is not the player he has showed the last few games, but he has helped his value, which is nice. D Rose is the key to everything and if you think that Amare is better than any player you can draft or sign in the next few years, then trade the whole f***ing team for him. As long as you have Rose+Amare you are prob a playoff team anyway, or at least very close.

The Suns have Nash, Amare, Shaq and a few others and right now they aren't a playoff team. The danger of the NBA is to be the perrenial 5th-8th seed. It becomes almost impossible to get better through the draft and usually you get very tight with cap space. The good thing is Rose is only going to get better. The Suns owner is also apparently making calls to trade Amare as well. I guess he's pretty desperate to shed payroll. I don't think Paxson would hesitate if he could get him for Tabo, Gooden, Simmons and Tyrus.

Idea from the Trib.... Last shot of the game, who ya got, Rose or Gordon?

 

if the game was tonight, I'd say Gordon -- as long as he doesn't have to dribble or create for himself.

Idea from the Trib.... Last shot of the game, who ya got, Rose or Gordon?

 

if the game was tonight, I'd say Gordon -- as long as he doesn't have to dribble or create for himself.

Gordon has proven consistently that he's not that guy. I'd go to Deng personally, with a mid-ranger.

I always understood that Kobe killed the deal. Garnett was a matter of Boston not wanting what the Bulls had to offer. I never saw anything about the Bulls turning down MN. Gasol was the only deal I saw that the Bulls actually killed.

And even then...the Bulls had clearly offered quite a bit more than the Lakers ever tried to offer for Gasol. The Bulls may have turned down a more expensive offer, but never had the chance to even evaluate a deal on the level of what the Lakers gave up for Gasol.

Gordon has proven consistently that he's not that guy. I'd go to Deng personally, with a mid-ranger.

There's actually been some reasonable discussion on this topic at a number of basketblogs over the last week. If you had to pick one guy in the league to take the shot in the last 24 seconds, who'd you pick. No brainer, Kobe right? Guess what Kobe's FG %age on those shots is over the last couple years? 25%.

 

League wide, the average on last second shots is only 30%. Gordon hits about 35%, which is actually a fair amount above average. So to respond to your claim that Gordon isn't the guy for those shots, if he isn't, then very few people around the league are.

 

The interesting reality of this is that the whole league sucks in those situations. 30% is terrible, and that can't just be from people taking 3's or because of defense, that suggests that the offenses people are trying to run are vastly less effective than the offenses teams run during the normal part of the game. In other words, the question shouldn't be "Who do you want taking the last shot", the question ought to be how are you going to create the last shot and make it a good one. Defense doesn't just get that much better at the last second.

 

More reading 1

More reading 2

Gordon has proven consistently that he's not that guy. I'd go to Deng personally, with a mid-ranger.

 

entry pass to Aaron Gray, off his head and in.

entry pass to Aaron Gray, off his head and in.

 

Cedric Simmons, Sneak Attack FTW

And even then...the Bulls had clearly offered quite a bit more than the Lakers ever tried to offer for Gasol. The Bulls may have turned down a more expensive offer, but never had the chance to even evaluate a deal on the level of what the Lakers gave up for Gasol.

 

That's really not the case if you believe the reports that came out right when it happened (I'm too lazy to check the old TalkBulls thread, pretty sure Sam Smith wrote about it). The Bulls supposedly had the opportunity to get Gasol for Noah, Thabo and PJ Brown's contract, but JR nixed it because he'd have had to re-sign Brown to a sizeable deal before the trade for cap purposes and pay a sizeable amount on the luxury tax. We'd have also had to take Brian Cardinal, but then again his deal is smaller than that of Larry Hughes.