Williams Shopping Jermaine

[winninguglyin83]

story in tomorrow's Tribune says that two NL scouts say Kenny Williams is shopping Jermaine.

 

The Sell High theory.

 

and he will probably have more suitors than Thome or PK.

 

Also says that Jenks could be moved.

 

Sounds like Kenny is trying to be creative and get younger.'

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,7366873.story

[fathom]

You better get back at least one prospect that you know can be on your 25 man roster next season. Those Mets pitchers would be a disappointing return.

[Balta1701]

Tuesday night, several Sox officials watched Mets pitching prospects Bobby Parnell and Eddie Kunz pitch for the Peoria Saguaros in the AFL. Two scouts believed Parnell, 24, was too valuable for the Mets to deal and believed Kunz, a projected closer, needed more seasoning in the minors.

Turns out they got to watch Poreda give up 3 runs in a 3rd of an inning and got to watch Slayer go 3/4 as well.

[winninguglyin83]

i am not opposed to dealing Jenks.

 

His price is about to skyrocket.

 

His Ks are declining.

 

He doesn't stay in shape.

 

And he has that screw in his arm.

 

But ... we don't have anybody to fill that role.

 

That's Kenny's dilemma.

[BearSox]

i am not opposed to dealing Jenks.

 

His price is about to skyrocket.

 

His Ks are declining.

 

He doesn't stay in shape.

 

And he has that screw in his arm.

 

But ... we don't have anybody to fill that role.

 

That's Kenny's dilemma.

I guess that's the definition of a dilemma right there... two equally good and bad choices.

[BearSox]

You better get back at least one prospect that you know can be on your 25 man roster next season. Those Mets pitchers would be a disappointing return.

I personally would love a Dye for Edwin Jackson and Willy Aybar deal. We could then either deal Fields for pitching help or have Fields and Aybar kind of platoon at 3B. It would also make any trade of Vazquez safer as we wouldn't have two holes in a rotation if we do trade him.

Edited November 13, 2008 by BearSox

[witesoxfan]

I personally would love a Dye for Edwin Jackson and Willy Aybar deal. We could then either deal Fields for pitching help or have Fields and Aybar kind of platoon at 3B. It would also make any trade of Vazquez safer as we wouldn't have two holes in a rotation if we do trade him.

 

I don't like Jackson at all, not any more than Daniel Cabrera anyways, who will almost certainly be much cheaper to acquire and is a very similar pitcher. I think he could be a dynamite setup man, but I just don't care for him much as a back end of the rotation starter. I also think Aybar is a solid player, but he seems more like a real good utility player to me than a starter.

 

I brought something like that up a while ago, but if the Sox deal Dye to the Rays, I'd make sure I'm getting Garza or Shields (probably Garza), because you won't get Kazmir or Price while Jackson and Sonnanstine seem like mediocre options for the Sox. I'd even give up another player to get Garza or Shields, simply because both are more valuable than Dye, though I don't know who Tampa would be interested in.

 

One key to watch, as it always is with Williams, is what kind of pitching he brings in. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him bring in a project, a veteran on an incentive laden deal, and a starting pitching prospect.

[caulfield12]

It's going to take a LOT to get Garza. While they value Kazmir and Price more, Kazmir might be a little more expendable, due to his increasing contract numbers. OTOH, he's a lefty with nasty stuff. But Garza is cheaper and has ALMOST the same stuff...he can be equally nasty, and he's still just learning how to pitch at the big league level instead of just "throwing" like when he came up with the Twinkies.

 

It would have to be Dye and Poreda for Garza or Dye/Jenks for Garza and something really nice (not Crawford, of course...but a player KW has targeted...he knows who it is better than we do).

[witesoxfan]

It's going to take a LOT to get Garza. While they value Kazmir and Price more, Kazmir might be a little more expendable, due to his increasing contract numbers. OTOH, he's a lefty with nasty stuff. But Garza is cheaper and has ALMOST the same stuff...he can be equally nasty, and he's still just learning how to pitch at the big league level instead of just "throwing" like when he came up with the Twinkies.

 

It would have to be Dye and Poreda for Garza or Dye/Jenks for Garza and something really nice (not Crawford, of course...but a player KW has targeted...he knows who it is better than we do).

 

I think Dye and Poreda for Garza is a bit much, but it's a package that can be worked with, depending on what Tampa sees in Poreda too of course.

[Heads22]

I think Dye and Poreda for Garza is a bit much, but it's a package that can be worked with, depending on what Tampa sees in Poreda too of course.

 

That's definitely a bit much, especially considering the offensive dropoff we'd face.

[rockren]

I think Dye and Poreda for Garza is a bit much, but it's a package that can be worked with, depending on what Tampa sees in Poreda too of course.

 

They can keep Garza. His talent is undeniable...but he doesn't have the maturity to last in Chicago. We've been pretty fortunate with young pitchers through the years...Garza wouldn't do well on the south side.

[BearSox]

I don't like Jackson at all, not any more than Daniel Cabrera anyways, who will almost certainly be much cheaper to acquire and is a very similar pitcher. I think he could be a dynamite setup man, but I just don't care for him much as a back end of the rotation starter. I also think Aybar is a solid player, but he seems more like a real good utility player to me than a starter.

 

I brought something like that up a while ago, but if the Sox deal Dye to the Rays, I'd make sure I'm getting Garza or Shields (probably Garza), because you won't get Kazmir or Price while Jackson and Sonnanstine seem like mediocre options for the Sox. I'd even give up another player to get Garza or Shields, simply because both are more valuable than Dye, though I don't know who Tampa would be interested in.

 

One key to watch, as it always is with Williams, is what kind of pitching he brings in. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him bring in a project, a veteran on an incentive laden deal, and a starting pitching prospect.

I could see Pedro Martinez getting signed and having an impact some-what like El-Duque's from 05.

 

Also, I doubt we'll see any of Garza, Sheilds, or Kazmir traded. And while Price is obviously untouchable, I don't see what everyone sees in him.

[caulfield12]

If KW thinks Poreda's the next Matt Thornton instead of Scott Kazmir, then he makes this deal in a heartbeat.

 

He does lose the Type A compensation for Dye, though there's no guarantee holding onto Jermaine wouldn't result in him finally succumbing to an injury this season...it seems like it's due to happen. His health has been almost TOO good with us to last at his age and body/frame. It's not like we would giving up draft slots that would net us a Beckham or Borchard level of prospect (unless we suddenly go the Porcello free spending route, which is now being reigned in by the Tigers' ownership a bit).

 

Garza's a competitor, and he's got a healthy ego. I think he would fit in fine...maybe he would even rub off on Javy, who might actually decide to compete with the shutouts that will be thrown by Danks, Floyd and Garza.

 

I just really like getting Garza, not only from a financial/savings standpoint, but it's a logical move in the "pitching/defense wins championships" mentality.

 

Then you move Quentin over to RF, and Swisher's your LF. And you hope that Swisher gets his head out of his arse and starts to produce like he's capable.

Edited November 13, 2008 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I could see Pedro Martinez getting signed and having an impact some-what like El-Duque's from 05.

 

Also, I doubt we'll see any of Garza, Sheilds, or Kazmir traded. And while Price is obviously untouchable, I don't see what everyone sees in him.

 

 

Price seems to be just a more hyped Poreda. Similar FB, questionable breaking/secondary stuff. Even Dave Wills was honest, saying that he believed Price would really have to prove himself and that there were a lot of question marks about his arsenal holding up for 5-7 innings, as limited as it was. Sure, he has the fastball, but any big leaguer can crank Zumaya if he's sitting "dead red." Like Swisher, lol.

[rockren]

Also, I doubt we'll see any of Garza, Sheilds, or Kazmir traded. And while Price is obviously untouchable, I don't see what everyone sees in him.

 

They'll keep the core of Shields, Kaz, Garza, Sonny together, while having guys like Davis and McGee potentially battling with Price for the 5. They have a ridiculous amount of pitching and will look to deal Edwin Jackson because it makes sense to do so.

 

As for not seeing what everyone sees in Price...you lost me there. Perhaps it's his fastball/slider look exactly the same at his release point with his slider being nearly unhittable at times. It certainly looked unhittable to Boston hitters who have never seen it before.

[Heads22]

I like Garza as well. I don't think he's worth one of our top offensive players and our top prospect.

[rockren]

I like Garza as well. I don't think he's worth one of our top offensive players and our top prospect.

 

I agree in not wanting to deal Dye...but it might be the best move pending on what we get in return.

 

If we could pull in a package of Edwin Jackson, Eduardo Morlan and Willy Aybar for JD...I wouldn't blink.

 

It's a pipe dream, I know....but not impossible.

[caulfield12]

I like Garza as well. I don't think he's worth one of our top offensive players and our top prospect.

 

 

Beckham is our top prospect now.

 

I would never dream of giving up Beckham and Dye (it could't happen anyways, because of Slayer's signing date). Poreda's a different story. If he's going to be a starter, and KW/Coop believes he can do it, then I don't even think about trading him now.

 

If he's going to be another Thornton/Marte, then you aren't losing nearly as much. Look at it this way...could Thornton become a starter this spring? Well, in the past, that hasn't worked so well...his fastball would straighten out even more and he'd get hit around the second or third time around. Arguably, Thornton throws a tick or two harder than Poreda.

 

I just don't know how teachable Poreda is...I mean, Cooper's had so much success with the likes of Contreras, Loaiza, Garland, Thornton, Marte, Danks, Floyd...can Poreda add pitches like the "cutter" or slider/change-up? I don't know. We're not privy to those "inside" conversations...conventional wisdom from the likes of Jim Callis is that he profiles more as a reliever, but Alexei Ramirez was thought to be a combination of Ramon Santiago/Omar Infante/Craig Grebeck and certainly not a poor man's A. Soriano.

Edited November 13, 2008 by caulfield12

[sircaffey]

Price seems to be just a more hyped Poreda. Similar FB, questionable breaking/secondary stuff. Even Dave Wills was honest, saying that he believed Price would really have to prove himself and that there were a lot of question marks about his arsenal holding up for 5-7 innings, as limited as it was. Sure, he has the fastball, but any big leaguer can crank Zumaya if he's sitting "dead red." Like Swisher, lol.

 

Price's slider is a solid plus-plus pitch. It's compared to Smoltz's in his prime. It's certainly not questionable.

[rockren]

Price's slider is a solid plus-plus pitch. It's compared to Smoltz's in his prime. It's certainly not questionable.

 

Thank you

[BearSox]

Price's slider is a solid plus-plus pitch. It's compared to Smoltz's in his prime. It's certainly not questionable.

While, he must not have had that solid plus-plus slider in the playoffs.

 

His whole approach is bad anyway. He has a delivery that would be deceitful to lefties, yet his slider is more effective vs. righties down and in. Also, his fastball had some good zip, but didn't have much movement.

 

I'll tell you guys now, Price isn't going to be a stud starter but rather a solid middle of the rotation guy.

Edited November 13, 2008 by BearSox

[BearSox]

They'll keep the core of Shields, Kaz, Garza, Sonny together, while having guys like Davis and McGee potentially battling with Price for the 5. They have a ridiculous amount of pitching and will look to deal Edwin Jackson because it makes sense to do so.

 

As for not seeing what everyone sees in Price...you lost me there. Perhaps it's his fastball/slider look exactly the same at his release point with his slider being nearly unhittable at times. It certainly looked unhittable to Boston hitters who have never seen it before.

The Rays would be wise to trade Sonnastine while his value is high. He is like a very poor man's right handed version of Mark Buehrle. Sonnastine will be lucky if he ever repeats the preformance he had last year. His stuff is one step above utter garbage. The sad thing is he shut us down.

[sircaffey]

While, he must not have had that solid plus-plus slider in the playoffs.

 

His whole approach is bad anyway. He has a delivery that would be deceitful to lefties, yet his slider is more effective vs. righties down and in. Also, his fastball had some good zip, but didn't have much movement.

 

I'll tell you guys now, Price isn't going to be a stud starter but rather a solid middle of the rotation guy.

 

He allowed 2 H, 1 ER, and 8 K's in 5.2 IP with just a good fastball? I saw him make several good hitters look silly with his slider.

[BearSox]

He allowed 2 H, 1 ER, and 8 K's in 5.2 IP with just a good fastball? I saw him make several good hitters look silly with his slider.

Yeah, he got hitters out, but that was his first time around. He still has a lot more to prove to me, and a lot of other people, before I declare him some sort of phenom.

[scenario]

Yeah, he got hitters out, but that was his first time around. He still has a lot more to prove to me, and a lot of other people, before I declare him some sort of phenom.

 

Too late.

 

He's already been declared a phenom.