Screw competing, let's get younger....YUCK

We're contenders without Javy and Dye. With Javy and Dye we're better in '09 on paper, but we're still not a shoe-in for the division title. Why not add some more to the system and try to make ourselves AWESOME in 2010 and beyond, instead of just pretty good? Besides, this could end up being just like the Garland situation last year. Many were b****ing, including myself, about trading a veteran workhorse and starting Gavin freakin' Floyd in his place. It looked like such an obvious blunder, but we ended up a lot better because of it. If we didn't make that move then we wouldn't have ended up where we did.

A package of Davis and Jackson seems eerily similar to Floyd and Gio...

I still think Poreda is destined for the closers role. He still doesn't have a third pitch.

I feel the same way, that is of course unless he learns a nasty change, then he's a starter.

Well, it will be one of Josh Fields or Viciedo.

Maybe. Ideally. Hopefully. It's never guaranteed.

A package of Davis and Jackson seems eerily similar to Floyd and Gio...

The only way I think you can jutsify acquiring Jackson is if you traded Vazquez first, and we don't know whether that's going to happen ATM.

 

At least with Davis, you can stick him in AAA for 2009, and call him up if you need to.

A package of Davis and Jackson seems eerily similar to Floyd and Gio...

Jackson's had MUCH more time to figure things out than Floyd had had at the time.

I just don't see getting Jackson AND a young/quality arm like Wade Davis for Dye. We'd have to give up something more than JD for two seasons.

 

Pitching is like gold, and young/talented starting pitchers are like the Hope Diamond. You don't give them up without risking severe repercussions (see Kazmir deal). I think Friedman is smart enough to know that even if he appears to have an abundance of pitching, there's always injuries or slumps (Sonnanstine would be a good candidate, or Shields) and you can NEVER have too much pitching.

 

When I hear Davis/Jackson for Dye, it makes me think of KW giving up Fogg AND Wells for Ritchie. It just has a tremendous risk of backfiring.

I feel the same way, that is of course unless he learns a nasty change, then he's a starter.

 

Change would be ideal, because it would be a change from the hard stuff. If not, a cutter is always possible.

Edwin and Wade...mark me down.

Wade is arguably a top 20 prospect in all of baseball so you aren't going to get Edwin Jackson as well. In fact, It wouldn't shock me at all if you couldn't even get Davis straight up for Dye. I'm still holding out hope for a Davis/Aybar deal, but I guess my question would be whether Aybar even makes any sense with Betemeit in the picture (Aybar > Betemeit though).

 

Another possibility of course is if the Rays are so down on Niemann that the Sox could pick up Davis and Nienneman with the intent of converting Nien to an eventual back of the pen type guy (initially 6th to 7th inning, but hopefully he develops into an 8th/9th inning guy).

Why has everyone fallen in love with W. Aybar?

 

 

He has some huge character issues (drugs). I hope we stay away from him.

Why has everyone fallen in love with W. Aybar?

 

Didn't we just get Betemit? He's a nice role player to have on a team, but I don't ever envision either Betemit or Aybar getting 300 at-bats with the Sox unless there are major injuries.

I pointed that out in another post I made. With Betemit, Aybar makes less sense.

If you trade for Dye, you should get parts back that you know the Orioles want for Brian Roberts. He's so obviously the best fit for this organization.

 

Why pay a king's ransom for Roberts if the Sox can just sign Furcal and keep Alexei at 2nd where we know he can play well. Roberts would look nice in a Sox uniform though.

Why pay a king's ransom for Roberts if the Sox can just sign Furcal and keep Alexei at 2nd where we know he can play well. Roberts would look nice in a Sox uniform though.

 

Because it would cost something like 4 years and $50 million to get Furcal here.

Jackson's had MUCH more time to figure things out than Floyd had had at the time.

 

In the Majors, but neither had figured it out. Floyd could have struggled in the majors just the same. He just didn't play for the Devil Rays.

Why pay a king's ransom for Roberts if the Sox can just sign Furcal and keep Alexei at 2nd where we know he can play well. Roberts would look nice in a Sox uniform though.

 

Because the O's will ask for Fields and Poreda...or more.

 

However, we would be able to get Type A compensation back in one year...so the trade wouldn't be so bad, considering we could pick up two players of similar abilities/talent. It's just that Poreda and Fields are much closer to making an impact, and KW is all about THIS season.

 

I think we can at least beat the package/s the Cubs offer if we go head-to-head with them for Roberts. That would be a PR coup for KW.

 

 

I think 4 years and $42-46 million will get the Furcal signing done for some team. He has an offer for 3/39 but wants the added security of an additional year.

Edited November 21, 200817 yr by caulfield12

A package of Davis and Jackson seems eerily similar to Floyd and Gio...

That package is a lot better. Jackson is at the very least a league average starter with above average stuff and Davis is currently a top 25 prospect in all of baseball. If the Sox got that type of haul I'd be left speachless. I'd also tell you that Javy will be packing his bags.

I don't get this at all. Why would KW trade Dye, who is still very productive, for a pitcher that has only had an ERA below 5 once in his career and only a 1.36 K:BB ratio? Last year was the best season of his career by far, and he still only had a 4.42 ERA, 1.51 WHIP and 1.40 K:BB. He is at best an average starter (much closer to being a below average pitcher) and definitely shouldn't be the main focus of a Jermaine Dye deal.

Edited November 21, 200817 yr by Felix

Jackson's had MUCH more time to figure things out than Floyd had had at the time.

More time in the majors yes, but both were at similar ages when they ultimately made there break-through. Well I don't know if I'd call Jacksons season a break-through season because there are some scary indicators (ie, not as many k's and a very high WHIP). But he's still very young with a plus arm.

If you trade for Dye, you should get parts back that you know the Orioles want for Brian Roberts. He's so obviously the best fit for this organization.

 

I like the thinking.

 

If the Sox moved Dye for quality young pitching, it opens up possibilities (and money) for another deal that could yield a quality leadoff hitter.

 

Maybe Roberts.

 

But I can't help but think we may be the 'mystery team' making a play for Furcal too... and that moving Dye might be the key to securing the funds to make that possible.

 

I don't get this at all. Why would KW trade Dye, who is still very productive, for a pitcher that has only had an ERA below 5 once in his career and only a 1.36 K:BB ratio? Last year was the best season of his career by far, and he still only had a 4.42 ERA, 1.51 WHIP and 1.40 K:BB. He is at best an average starter (much closer to being a below average pitcher) and definitely shouldn't be the main focus of a Jermaine Dye deal.

because, frankly we have been lucky with JD, especially with injuries. This is a good time to sell high.

Why pay a king's ransom for Roberts if the Sox can just sign Furcal and keep Alexei at 2nd where we know he can play well. Roberts would look nice in a Sox uniform though.

If the Sox could get Jackson and a nice pitching prospect (I can't see them getting Jackson and Davis) than the writing is on the wall for Javy. Maybe they can get one above average prospect for Javy and than either go out and get Furcal or use some of the existing system to land Brian Roberts. They'd clearly have quite a bit of resources freed up.

I don't get this at all. Why would KW trade Dye, who is still very productive, for a pitcher that has only had an ERA below 5 once in his career and only a 1.36 K:BB ratio? Last year was the best season of his career by far, and he still only had a 4.42 ERA, 1.51 WHIP and 1.40 K:BB. He is a below average pitcher and definitely shouldn't be the main focus of a Jermaine Dye deal.

One year left on his deal, getting worse in all aspects of the game right now. No doubt he is a productive player, but an opportunity to get some more young pitching is something that you really can't pass up. But this is all speculation that Jackson is at the center of this deal, let's wait till we find out who they get (or if the deal even goes down) before we ask why trade Dye. Also, the $10 million that Dye makes could be turned into some other valuable chips.

Because it would cost something like 4 years and $50 million to get Furcal here.

Honestly, if you move Javy and Dye (plus already having moved Swisher and having Crede/Uribe/OC's contracts gone) that would be a drop in the bucket (especially when you factor in that the Sox would have gotten cost certainty out of there youngsters in the rotation for at least a few more years).

As much as I like the activity, I just don't like the sounds of this...

 

 

I'd be much more interested in what the secondary effects of what this trade will be...

 

One thing I worry about obtaining any Dray pitcher is they all might be a tad overrated. I mean, the range that defense possesses, has to suck up a lot of hits. Where our pitchers might all be a tad underrated in that regard. Just thinking out loud here.