Kennedy Assassination

[StrangeSox]

Or know what a controled demolition of a 110 story building looks like

 

At least the JFK conspiracy theories are a little more plausible.

 

I remember NBC doing a pretty good documentary/ investigation of this 5 years ago. They came back with the conclusion that he acted on his own.

Edited November 25, 2008 by StrangeSox

[YASNY]

I really did believe in a conspiracy a lot more until I actually visited the site and walked lots of the famous areas. The size of the area and the way it is set up is hard to appreciate through TV and the internet. I was a believer that Oswald could not have done it alone until I saw these couple of blocks, plus a couple of marksmen who set up some gel dummies and actually tested for the tragectory and distance, that it was entirely possible, actually probable, that LHO did this himself.

 

Now were there people forcing/asking him to do this? That I don't know.

 

You know, Mike. I do believe there was a conspiracy. Oswald had the means, skills and opportunity to do it. But the most convincing piece of evidence to me was a photo taken on Air Force 1 right after LBJ took the oath of office. Johnson has just turned his back to the camera and is looking toward a guy whose name escapes me, but as the photo is snapped this guy is winking at LBJ. It's hard to read anything in that under the circumstances of time and place as anything other than "Mission accomplished".

[Texsox]

You know, Mike. I do believe there was a conspiracy. Oswald had the means, skills and opportunity to do it. But the most convincing piece of evidence to me was a photo taken on Air Force 1 right after LBJ took the oath of office. Johnson has just turned his back to the camera and is looking toward a guy whose name escapes me, but as the photo is snapped this guy is winking at LBJ. It's hard to read anything in that under the circumstances of time and place as anything other than "Mission accomplished".

 

How about "I have faith in you doing your best. We will get through this".

[YASNY]

How about "I have faith in you doing your best. We will get through this".

 

I didn't see it that way.

[southsider2k5]

How about "I have faith in you doing your best. We will get through this".

 

Or even a random blink that just happened to be caught at the split second the photo was taken. We have all seen what people can do with cameras.

[clyons]

I am a lot less inclined to believe in a conspiracy than I used to be, although my visit to Dealey Plaza a few years ago didn't have much of an effect on my opinion.

 

Stone's JFK movie was interesting entertainment, but from everything I have read and seen, Jim Garrison (the Kevin Costner character)'s particular conspiracy theory has been completely debunked, and even amongst most die-hard conspiracy theorists, Garrison is regarded as somewhat of a nutjob.

 

There are, however, two points made in that movie that are hard for me to ignore: 1) the Warren Commission's "magic bullet" theory (hilariously lampooned in "Seinfeld") is just plain difficult to swallow; and 2) the Zapruder film does seem to show JFK's head snapping "back and to the left," "back and to the left," "back and to the left."

 

To accept Oswald as the lone gunman, one must not only buy into the "magic bullet" theory, but conclude that JFK's "back and to the left" head movement was some type of spasm. I understand that the latter is medically possible, but on film, it certainly does look like the result of a forward hit from the direction of the grassy knoll or triple underpass. On the other hand, that the assasination was some form of "coup" perpetuated by our military inductrial complex, or a "revenge" hit by Castro and/or the mafia seems to require even more of a stretch.

Edited November 25, 2008 by PlaySumFnJurny

[StrangeSox]

I am a lot less inclined to believe in a conspiracy than I used to be, although my visit to Dealey Plaza a few years ago didn't have much of an effect on my opinion.

 

Stone's JFK movie was interesting entertainment, but from everything I have read and seen, Jim Garrison (the Kevin Costner character)'s particular conspiracy theory has been completely debunked, and even amongst most die-hard conspiracy theorists, Garrison is regarded as somewhat of a nutjob.

 

There are, however, two points made in that movie that are hard for me to ignore: 1) the Warren Commission's "magic bullet" theory (hilariously lampooned in "Seinfeld") is just plain difficult to swallow; and 2) the Zapruder film does seem to show JFK's head snapping "back and to the left," "back and to the left," "back and to the left."

 

To accept Osawld as the lone gunman, one must not only buy into the "magic bullet" theory, but conclude that JFK's "back and to the left" head movement was some type of spasm. I understand that the latter is medically possible, but on film, it certainly does look like the result of a forward hit from the direction of the grassy knoll or triple underpass. On the other hand, that the assasination was some form of "coup" perpeutuated by our military inductrial complex, or a "revenge" hit by Castro and/or the mafia seems to require even more of a stretch.

 

 

This might be a tad graphic, but the exit side of a bullet wound has a lot of projectile matter coming with it. Since momentum in conserved, something needs to go in the opposite direction to balance out the equation. In this case, it was JFK's head.

 

This page has some more detailed explanations as well as watermelon examples.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm

Edited November 25, 2008 by StrangeSox

[NorthSideSox72]

I am a lot less inclined to believe in a conspiracy than I used to be, although my visit to Dealey Plaza a few years ago didn't have much of an effect on my opinion.

 

Stone's JFK movie was interesting entertainment, but from everything I have read and seen, Jim Garrison (the Kevin Costner character)'s particular conspiracy theory has been completely debunked, and even amongst most die-hard conspiracy theorists, Garrison is regarded as somewhat of a nutjob.

 

There are, however, two points made in that movie that are hard for me to ignore: 1) the Warren Commission's "magic bullet" theory (hilariously lampooned in "Seinfeld") is just plain difficult to swallow; and 2) the Zapruder film does seem to show JFK's head snapping "back and to the left," "back and to the left," "back and to the left."

 

To accept Oswald as the lone gunman, one must not only buy into the "magic bullet" theory, but conclude that JFK's "back and to the left" head movement was some type of spasm. I understand that the latter is medically possible, but on film, it certainly does look like the result of a forward hit from the direction of the grassy knoll or triple underpass. On the other hand, that the assasination was some form of "coup" perpetuated by our military inductrial complex, or a "revenge" hit by Castro and/or the mafia seems to require even more of a stretch.

 

You don't "have to believe" the magic bullet theory to believe there was 1 shooter. More likely, the timing issue was a matter of incorrect forensic investigation.

 

 

[clyons]

You don't "have to believe" the magic bullet theory to believe there was 1 shooter. More likely, the timing issue was a matter of incorrect forensic investigation.

 

True, but it is still troubling that the magic bullet theory is part of the "official" Warren Commission explanation, based upon underlying forensic evidence that, if incorrect, was still largely accepted without question. The WC left itself open to second guessing that has only fueled conspiracy theories, instead of putting them to rest.

 

I realize there are rational explanations for the "magic" bullet, as well as "back and to the left," but not all of them are simple or absolutely clear. Ultimately, however, they are still simpler than most of the convoluted conspiracies.

[longshot7]

How many people have actually ever been to the location that this happened at? The one thing I will say is how small the area really is. Oswald shooting from the book depository would have had a perfect shot, at a slow moving target, with nothing in his way, and not a long range. Also with the buildings there, I could really see how people could think there were multiple shooters. Noises echo in areas like that pretty easily, and it becomes hard to tell where exactly they came from.

 

Correct. I've been there too.

[southsider2k5]

I am a lot less inclined to believe in a conspiracy than I used to be, although my visit to Dealey Plaza a few years ago didn't have much of an effect on my opinion.

 

Stone's JFK movie was interesting entertainment, but from everything I have read and seen, Jim Garrison (the Kevin Costner character)'s particular conspiracy theory has been completely debunked, and even amongst most die-hard conspiracy theorists, Garrison is regarded as somewhat of a nutjob.

 

There are, however, two points made in that movie that are hard for me to ignore: 1) the Warren Commission's "magic bullet" theory (hilariously lampooned in "Seinfeld") is just plain difficult to swallow; and 2) the Zapruder film does seem to show JFK's head snapping "back and to the left," "back and to the left," "back and to the left."

 

To accept Oswald as the lone gunman, one must not only buy into the "magic bullet" theory, but conclude that JFK's "back and to the left" head movement was some type of spasm. I understand that the latter is medically possible, but on film, it certainly does look like the result of a forward hit from the direction of the grassy knoll or triple underpass. On the other hand, that the assasination was some form of "coup" perpetuated by our military inductrial complex, or a "revenge" hit by Castro and/or the mafia seems to require even more of a stretch.

 

The magic bullet theory seems to be more a problem with the Warren Commission having the two men sat in the wrong positions in the car. The Governor was actually sitting further to the inside of the car, which puts the bullet in a perfect line from Oswald to Kennedy to Connelly.

[whitesoxfan101]

I agree with ss2k5. I was a MUCH bigger believer in the conspiracies of multiple shooters until I visted the site and walked the entire area very carefully. It really is a big area, and the sound could have easily echoed through it and caused confusion, especially with everybody likely in a state of panic. It would have taken a major expert to do such an act, but it sounds like LHO was just that. I believe there were DEFINITELY people asking/forcing (more likely the 2nd one) him to do this (the circumstances surrounding LHO's murder are so incredible for instance), but I think in terms of the shooting itself, LHO probably acted alone. But he had some powerful people behind him that were happy when the assassination itself was carried out by LHO, perhaps even within the government.

Edited November 25, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[CrimsonWeltall]

To accept Oswald as the lone gunman, one must not only buy into the "magic bullet" theory, but conclude that JFK's "back and to the left" head movement was some type of spasm. I understand that the latter is medically possible, but on film, it certainly does look like the result of a forward hit from the direction of the grassy knoll or triple underpass.

 

The "magic bullet" idea requires that the Conally be directly in front of JFK. He wasn't. He was in a lower seat and more toward the middle of the car. It's a straight line from Kennedy's throat into Conally's back/rib. From there, it did redirect into his wrist and then thigh.

 

Also, if you go frame by frame, you see that Kennedy's head actually goes forward for one frame when he is hit in the head. Then, when the bullet exits above his right ear, he suddenly jerks back. This could be because of the force of the pieces of his head exploding out or just an involuntary jerk reaction of the body.

[Flash Tizzle]

With some of these conspiracy theorists it's an odd balance that, in one hand, they'll suggest our nation is run by an impressive collection of idiots; yet when it comes to well-known incidents involving as assassination (JFK/RFK) or acts of terrorism (9/11, possibly TWA 800) they're masterful at deceiving the public and suppressing the truth.

 

I'm sure many here have seen one of the numerous recreations of JFK's assassination. I don't know if it was the Discovery Channel, but they had team of computer engineers recreate the exact dimensions of every structure involved in the shooting. There were perfect lines extending from the spot Oswalt shot to Kennedy.

 

Mythbusters also had a segment on their show a few years ago dedicated to the "magic bullet" which was successfully duplicated.

[maggsmaggs]

Here is the supposed wink photo:

 

 

 

 

I dunno about this proving or even suggesting a conspiracy. If there is a better photo, please someone post it. But sometimes people get caught on the camera weird, I find it hard to believe that this is an indication of anything.

 

[ptatc]

If you've ever done any shooting and been to the site, you would know it would take a great shooter to hit JFK from that vantage point while he was moving down range. LHO was at best a good shot from his Military records.

 

There are two choices: 1) Multiple shooters, 2) It was the lucky shot of the century.

[CrimsonWeltall]

If you've ever done any shooting and been to the site, you would know it would take a great shooter to hit JFK from that vantage point while he was moving down range. LHO was at best a good shot from his Military records.

 

There are two choices: 1) Multiple shooters, 2) It was the lucky shot of the century.

 

The car was moving super slow away from him, why would that make the shot much harder?

 

And does choice 1 mean there were multiple shooters crammed in that book depository window?

[Texsox]

The car was moving super slow away from him, why would that make the shot much harder?

 

And does choice 1 mean there were multiple shooters crammed in that book depository window?

 

I just saw a documentary that displayed his log book and it showed scores of 48/50 and 49/50 on consecutive days. Were those forged? From what I saw, it doesn't look like that tough a shot. I've taken some long shots out west and it seems doable.

[Heads22]

Anybody know what the distance in the air was?

[knightni]

Oswald was the only shooter, but Johnson and the CIA put it together.

[Texsox]

Oswald was the only shooter, but Johnson and the CIA put it together.

How many people knew?

[The Bones]

I used to be convinced that there had to have been a second shooter. After looking at some things recently though I'm not so sure. The things that I find most interesting are the strange events that followed including Jack Ruby's involvement, what happened with certain evidence, and various quotes from people involved.

[southsider2k5]

Anybody know what the distance in the air was?

 

Someone earlier in this thread said 90 yards, which sounds about right. He was in the 6th floor, so that works out to 60-65 feet up, plus the distance away that the car was.

[lostfan]

Someone earlier in this thread said 90 yards, which sounds about right. He was in the 6th floor, so that works out to 60-65 feet up, plus the distance away that the car was.

So if it's 65 feet up that's about 111 yards. What do you know, I actually used some of that high school math

[Soxy]

So, I don't really know much about the Kennedy conspiracy theories--but what is the thought that Johnson was behind it? Raw ambition? Disagreement with Kennedy's policies? Just wondering.