Yeah I know, at that point Bonds was a leadoff hitter IIRC and Griffey was a #3 hitter. I'm just saying if Griffey's #'s had been steroid-inflated he would have these video game-esque OBPs that Bonds was putting up too.

 

Ken Griffey Jr. must have the greatest publicist in history, as it's amazing he's never been questioned about PED use. With all the freak tendon injuries he had and just unheard of home run totals, he's someone who I don't believe you can say was 100 pct clean.

Edited January 23, 200917 yr by fathom

Yeah I know, at that point Bonds was a leadoff hitter IIRC and Griffey was a #3 hitter. I'm just saying if Griffey's #'s had been steroid-inflated he would have these video game-esque OBPs that Bonds was putting up too.

He was leading off with PITT, yes, but he was also driving in 100+ and hitting 30+ HR's. Then he went o SF and hit 5th for 2 years and then 3rd.

Ken Griffey Jr. must have the greatest publicist in history, as it's amazing he's never been questioned about PED use. With all the freak tendon injuries he had and just unheard of home run totals, he's someone who I don't believe you can say was 100 pct clean.

I didn't think I was going to have to qualify this statement or state the reasoning again that I assumed was common knowledge but obviously nobody is 100% free of suspicion.

I didn't think I was going to have to qualify this statement or state the reasoning again that I assumed was common knowledge but obviously nobody is 100% free of suspicion.

 

Fair enough...good argument, and I hope the hero of Little Big League isn't tainted.

He was leading off with PITT, yes, but he was also driving in 100+ and hitting 30+ HR's. Then he went o SF and hit 5th for 2 years and then 3rd.

Yes, yes I know.

 

edit: Before I reply to any more posts like this, do people really think I'm saying Bonds was not a legit all-time power hitter or something pre-roids?

Edited January 24, 200917 yr by lostfan

Yes, yes I know.

 

edit: Before I reply to any more posts like this, do people really think I'm saying Bonds was not a legit all-time power hitter or something pre-roids?

Well, when you say that all of Bond's numbers are inflated because of PED's, it's just not true. You're essentially saying his OBP in 1994 was because of steroids.

If Griffey is actually "suspected" of anything, (can't believe I'm actually seeing this stuff posted with my own eyes) then that means you would also include Frank in that group considering they were both the biggest backers against any enhancing drug use since the mid 90's. Hell, Pujols is probably the most secretive user back in the early 2000s, but of course he's getting praised, even though he's a tremendous player. I will say this again.. when/where/how did all the Bonds love come all of a sudden? Where were you guys one/two years ago?

If Griffey is actually "suspected" of anything, (can't believe I'm actually seeing this stuff posted with my own eyes) then that means you would also include Frank in that group considering they were both the biggest backers against any enhancing drug use since the mid 90's. Hell, Pujols is probably the most secretive user back in the early 2000s, but of course he's getting praised, even though he's a tremendous player. I will say this again.. when/where/how did all the Bonds love come all of a sudden? Where were you guys one/two years ago?

 

I've always been a fan of Bonds, and have clamored for the Sox to sign him the past few seasons. And I honestly don't want to get into this, but I've also never stated that Frank was 100 pct clean. You never know what goes through a player's mind when his skills start to diminish and they have to overcome debilitating injuries while they see everyone around them using PEDs and getting big contracts.

Edited January 24, 200917 yr by fathom

Well, when you say that all of Bond's numbers are inflated because of PED's, it's just not true. You're essentially saying his OBP in 1994 was because of steroids.

No I'm not, I'm talking about his OBPs from the first part of this decade that were consistently in the 500s and 600s when pitchers were terrified of him because he would hit anything close to the strike zone 700 feet and then eat their first-born child while rounding the bases.

This was not a thread about Griffey vs. Bonds and PEDs.

 

But it is now.

Hi, Jack!

If Griffey is actually "suspected" of anything, (can't believe I'm actually seeing this stuff posted with my own eyes) then that means you would also include Frank in that group considering they were both the biggest backers against any enhancing drug use since the mid 90's. Hell, Pujols is probably the most secretive user back in the early 2000s, but of course he's getting praised, even though he's a tremendous player. I will say this again.. when/where/how did all the Bonds love come all of a sudden? Where were you guys one/two years ago?

I've been one of Bonds' biggest supporters for a LONG time. You can ask Wite about that.

He's the ONLY steroid-related player I would vote for. I hate him for what he did in the 2000's, but he'd have been a hall of famer no doubt had he never touched the stuff, and he's the only guy I can for sure say that about.

 

What about Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez?

Oh I completely agree, but I just wish we could have seen what Bonds would have done had he never touched steroids. He obviously would have never hit 73 home runs or broke the all time home run record, but he'd still be a guy with 600 something home runs in all likelihood to go with all of the walks, steals, gold gloves, and MVP's. He cheated himself using the stuff because he didn't need it.

 

 

In his mind, big literally and figuratively, Sammy and McGwire were inferior players who "stole his thunder" in 1998 with the HR chase.

 

He wanted to get back on top and grab/hold the country's attention, because he felt underappreciated as the greatest "pure" baseball player up until that point in time, in terms of once having been a 30/30 type of guy and Gold Gloves defensively...he was so thin (like Sosa when he came up), he seemed that he'd have a lot more trouble hitting homers than stealing bases.

Edited January 24, 200917 yr by caulfield12

He's the ONLY steroid-related player I would vote for. I hate him for what he did in the 2000's, but he'd have been a hall of famer no doubt had he never touched the stuff, and he's the only guy I can for sure say that about.

 

Clemens would have been a hall of famer without steroids.

I've always loved Bonds. MHizzle can back me up. Best player I've ever seen and will probably be the best I'll ever see. When it comes to athletes, I can't dislike someone with freakish abilities. The steroid things doesn't really bother me with any player either. Except Clemens, I just think he is an ass.

Clemens would have been a hall of famer without steroids.

I disagree. Before he supposedly started the steroids in Toronto, he only had 192 career wins and 2500 k's. He was only 40-39 the 4 years prior to that and looked finished. Then, he goes out and becomes a great pitcher again all of a sudden. His use should have been way more noticeable than even Bonds. He was also not a HOF player before he started using like bonds.

He's an incredible baseball player who showed uncanny strike zone ability and is quite possibly the epitome (in his prime) of a 5 tool player.

Sid Bream still laughs at his throwing arm.

Clemens would have been a hall of famer without steroids.

 

His Boston resume, which included a downhill turn which caused them to let him go before a sudden revival when he arrived in Toronto and beyond, disagrees.

I've always loved Bonds. MHizzle can back me up. Best player I've ever seen and will probably be the best I'll ever see. When it comes to athletes, I can't dislike someone with freakish abilities. The steroid things doesn't really bother me with any player either. Except Clemens, I just think he is an ass.

*backing up shoe* You're still the only person that I know that likes Bonds other than myself. Sure he more than likely took PEDs...you've still gotta be able to hit the ball. It's not as if every player that takes PEDs become monsters at the plate.

I will completely agree that he was unfairly singled out. There are so many guys who don't get enough blame for what they did, even guys like McGwire and Clemens who you hear about a lot aren't given enough heat in my opinion. But there is a reason his stats make your eyes pop out of your head, because they were significantly enhanced.

Well he was the best steroid user. How is that unfairly singled out?

I like Bonds because everybody hates him. And he couldn't give two s***s. He was long considered a first ballot HOF before steroids ever became an issue. What he did from '01 to '04 was legendary. If you want to put asterisks on those years, fine. Just make sure you do the same for Roger Clemens, ect.

Edited January 24, 200917 yr by Jordan4life

I've always loved Bonds. MHizzle can back me up. Best player I've ever seen and will probably be the best I'll ever see. When it comes to athletes, I can't dislike someone with freakish abilities. The steroid things doesn't really bother me with any player either. Except Clemens, I just think he is an ass.

 

If you think Clemens is an ass (which he is) then you need to take another look at Bonds. He makes Clemens look like a saint.

 

One of the many reasons why I prefer baseball to other sports is that its HOF has character clauses. I don't expect players to be saints, but, if you illegally stilt the playing field or do things to ruin the game (i.e. Bonds, Rose), then you have no place in the Hall of Fame. That's how it worked for Rose, that's how its working for McGwire, and I hope that is how it works for Bonds.

 

I think its laughable that people actually think Griffey didn't use PED.