Please keep the discussion in the healthcare thread. Maybe we can merge this latter?

This is the healthcare thread...?

Saying we don't have a free market system currently is the same as sayign we don't have free speech because you can't yell fire in a theater, or that you don't have freedom of religion because a principal is going to jail for praying in school.

 

Also, BULLs***.

 

He's going to jail for being in contempt of court.

That's a tough one. Should we really protect the debtor or the holder of the debt? Already medical bills cannot be dropped through a bankruptcy.

Not tough if you consider it another step in the slippery slope. There are legal recourses for the holders of debt. This eliminates that and just gives the government the right to withdraw money if THEY deem it so. If the provision is changed to allow it to happen, after a court verdict is reached, or something like that, then maybe. But as it stands now, tough. Don't want to new government insurance? too bad, you gonna pay for it anyway, and we're taking it right out of your account.

What section of the bill is this in?

ahh the slippery slope, the domino effect. If we let gays marry, what's next DOGS MARRYING PEOPLE!?!?!

Bloddy hell. I've proposed 4 or 5 ideas myself besides tort reform. But no one wants to hear anything but "government must step in and take this over because it's such a mess". Screw it. No one wants but what the talking points are fed to them by their respective blogs.

 

I stop reading your posts after I read something ridiculous, so rarely do I get past the first sentence.

 

The problem is the only place real pressure is going to come from for change from the insurance industry is the government. So it's either status quo or the evil government is going to have to act on the free market system. So I suggest you call your representatives to put together a plan instead of just playing obstruction.

I stop reading your posts after I read something ridiculous, so rarely do I get past the first sentence.

 

The problem is the only place real pressure is going to come from for change from the insurance industry is the government. So it's either status quo or the evil government is going to have to act on the free market system. So I suggest you call your representatives to put together a plan instead of just playing obstruction.

You don't want to hear the alternatives, you just think you're getting something for nothing. Another entitlement. Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee. And BS - I have made several non Kaperbolistic ™ posts in this thread about serious alternatives about actually addressing the problems but none of them go far enough to where the entire world is covered, yet all costs will go down ObamaCare scenarios, so most of you don't care about any other alternative.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how all this coverage will be provided yet costs will go down at the same time. No preconditions will be denied, no illegals denied, no one will be turned away, and miraculously, all costs will insanely go down at the same time. Keep smoking the Dem talking points.

 

This is the healthcare thread...?

 

I wrote up a poll, then merged. I guess the poll was deleted. I will try again.

no illegals denied,

 

this is why I don't read what you say, you can't write a post without being ridiculous.

Deconstructing the Right Wing Lies on the Health Insurance Bill -- Pages 1-500

Page 500 - 730

this is why I don't read what you say, you can't write a post without being ridiculous.

They're not. Why is this ridiculous? They are guaranteed health care under the current house bill.

 

There was an amendment proposed to take this provision out and it was shot down.

 

They're not. Why is this ridiculous? They are guaranteed health care under the current house bill.

 

There was an amendment proposed to take this provision out and it was shot down.

 

There is some public health benefits to that. On the surface I am against illegals receiving any sort of benefits outside of law enforcement (for and against), I do not want someone with untreated disease preparing my food or breathing on me at the grocery store.

They're not. Why is this ridiculous? They are guaranteed health care under the current house bill.

 

There was an amendment proposed to take this provision out and it was shot down.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...,0,887725.story

 

The latest CBO analysis of the house bill also said that illegals were not covered. The only places I see reporting that they are are Free Republic. Pretty funny to criticize others for only getting their info from their blogs, huh?

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/st...ts-health-bill/

Just a thought:

Could Obama be "playing" to the center to piss off the far left to get them to mobilize and push through the health care reform he wants?

no. you don't really need to pander to the far left they aren't going anywhere.

 

Ah yes. Fear mongering.

Obama Set to Release the Hound: Joe Biden

 

Even as the White House concedes that its options for recruiting Republican support on health care have dwindled, if not passed altogether, administration officials say they have one last weapon in an effort to curry elusive bipartisan support.

 

Vice President Joseph Biden has, to this point, been noticeably silent in the health care debate, his time consumed primarily with overseeing the stimulus and consulting on foreign policy matters. Now, however, the assets he brings to the debate are of increasing importance and White House aides say he will be deployed by the president in a more strategic matter -- primarily as a bridge between the administration and those recalcitrant Senate Democrats and moderate Republicans critical to reform's passage.

 

"He has pretty substantial relationships with most members of the Senate who didn't come in this year," said one administration official. "He knows [senate Finance Committee Chairman Max] Baucus (D-Mont.) well, he knows [sen. Chuck] Grassley (R-Iowa). He knows [senate Majority Leader] Harry Reid (D-Nev.). It is going to depend on what the issues are and who he needs to talk to but there is no one who is currently playing a major role that he doesn't have a long relationship with."

....

Biden could also play an important role beyond Capitol Hill. Part of the reason he was chosen as vice president was for his appeal to elderly and white working class communities -- two major constituencies that have soured on the White House's approach to the health care debate.

 

He can also publicly identify with consumers of medical services. During the primary campaign he routinely would make light of the fact that he had "acquired more health care bills than anyone."

Obama Set to Release the Hound: Joe Biden

*queues right-wing laugh track*

I stop reading your posts after I read something ridiculous, so rarely do I get past the first sentence.

 

The problem is the only place real pressure is going to come from for change from the insurance industry is the government. So it's either status quo or the evil government is going to have to act on the free market system. So I suggest you call your representatives to put together a plan instead of just playing obstruction.

 

Here's a plan that was put together by 6 sectors of the Healthcare Industry of how they want to achieve reform. Anybody read through it at all?

Healthcare Stakeholder Letter to Obama

Also, BULLs***.

 

He's going to jail for being in contempt of court.

 

My point exactly. You are taking something out of context and saying that it means something that it doesn't.

Ridiculous. The current system in health care provision is nowhere within sniffing distance of competitive capitalism. The intervening presence of insurance providers and the labrynthine provider system allow for no real level of choice at all, other than, basically, insurance or no insurance.

 

The current "solution" provided by Congress may suck donkey balls, but let's not get ridiculous about the current system being so great.

 

Who said anything was great?

Ah yes. Fear mongering.

 

So I still have not had it explained to me how we are adding 50,000,000 million people to the system, while having, at most, the same number of doctors, nurses, and facilities, without having longer delays, and less care. If you can explain it, I would love to hear it.