Was Trading Brandon Allen a Mistake?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

You don’t have to be a professional out to see that lefty-hitting 1st basemen who has hit well in the minors should be valued over a relief pitcher.

Don't even bother. He loves that flawed line of thinking.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The black Ryan Sweeney just barely squeaks another one over the wall.

 

The black Ryan Sweeney also has 15 K's in 37 at-bats.

[RockRaines]

The black Ryan Sweeney just barely squeaks another one over the wall.

I watched him play last night the entire game. I have yet to see if his swing will translate 100% to the majors as he was overmatched in other at bats, but it looks like this one could come back to bite KW in the ass. But I think many of us knew that when he made the trade.

[Dick Allen]

The black Ryan Sweeney also has 15 K's in 37 at-bats.

Reading some of the posts, I'm shocked he's not hitting near .500 with 15 HR in 37 AB.

[elrockinMT]

The question about Brandon Allen begs the question of what will happen to PK. Will Konerko stay with the Sox until retirement? That might be 5 or 6 more years and if he does stay Allen had no place to play with the Sox. It would appear that Pena for Allen is not working out for the Sox, but reagrdless Allen was trade bait to some team IMO

[Dick Allen]

There are more than a few scouts who don't think Brandon Allen is an everyday firstbaseman on the major league level. I guess people are willing to live with 15 k in 37 AB when a guy leaves the White Sox. If he were here, the consensus would be he sucked, but since the Sox traded him, he's can't miss. Most of the can't missed KW has traded, have missed. Badly.

 

One thing the Sox should be good at after years of experience, is identifying busts.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Dick Allen

[chisoxt]

PS

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/phillies-inte-1.html

 

 

 

So there. The same guy Kenny dealt for Carlos Quentin he also was going to deal for Akinori Otsuka, who at the time was a 35-year-old setup man with 4 seasons in MLB.

 

I maintain that Allen is a very similar prospect to Carter, and I believe this Tony Pena deal was very close to the deal the Sox almost made for Otsuka. It was a short-sighted, desperate move by Kenny and a steal for the DBacks

Kenny and the Sox HAVE to change their approach as far as how they stock their roster with relievers. The trend nowadays seems to be for teams to develop these guys within your own system rather than going out and overpaying for expensive washed up talent like Linebrink, Dotel and Mmac Dougal. Even a big market club like the Red Sox has a lot of no-name young guys who are fairly effective.

[ThunderBolt]

Don't even bother. He loves that flawed line of thinking.

I find it oddly disconcerting that it's so hard for you to grasp the concept that even a league-average offensive option is almost always a better option than middling relief option. Especially, when the aforementioned younger, offensive player hits left-handed and fills a void on our team for the next six years.

[ThunderBolt]

Reading some of the posts, I'm shocked he's not hitting near .500 with 15 HR in 37 AB.

On the other hand one would think by reading these posts that Tony Pena 25 hits in 21 innings, 11 ER, 2.5 BB’s per/9, 1.7, HR’s per/9, 10.4 hits per/9 make him one of the most dominate set-up men in the league.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

On the other hand one would think by reading these posts that Tony Pena 25 hits in 21 innings, 11 ER, 2.5 BB’s per/9, 1.7, HR’s per/9, 10.4 hits per/9 make him one of the most dominate set-up men in the league.

T-Bolt for the win...

 

...and he's got it!

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The black Ryan Sweeney also has 15 K's in 37 at-bats.

True, but check out his stint in Charlotte. Give him a year in a majors - or maybe just two months - and then let's see if he's striking out at similar pace.

[Soxbadger]

I find it oddly disconcerting that it's so hard for you to grasp the concept that even a league-average offensive option is almost always a better option than middling relief option. Especially, when the aforementioned younger, offensive player hits left-handed and fills a void on our team for the next six years.

 

Well its because usually a starter is more valuable than a bench player. So if KW believed that Pena was going to be the right handed set up man and replace Linebrink his value far exceeds that of a bench player.

 

As for "filling a void for the next 6 years", I believe that the White Sox did not feel that Allen would ever be a suitable option for them at 1b. Since they felt he would never start, the White Sox valued Pena's ability to contribute today, over Allen's ability to contribute on the bench.

 

I believe that the Sox felt that they already have options at 1b and DH, making Allen expendable.

 

Furthermore, I believe that KW shopped Allen around to see what he could get, and that Pena was the best that was offered. I doubt there was some other team offering us the world for Allen.

[Balta1701]

Furthermore, I believe that KW shopped Allen around to see what he could get, and that Pena was the best that was offered. I doubt there was some other team offering us the world for Allen.

On the other hand, it was also rumored that Pena was one of those guys that KW might have had his eye on for a while for some reason. Those guys are guys that KW occasionally will overpay to try to get.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

The question about Brandon Allen begs the question of what will happen to PK. Will Konerko stay with the Sox until retirement? That might be 5 or 6 more years and if he does stay Allen had no place to play with the Sox. It would appear that Pena for Allen is not working out for the Sox, but reagrdless Allen was trade bait to some team IMO

 

Couldn't Konerko go to DH at some point?

[Soxbadger]

Konerko could DH.

 

But I think the Sox also have Flowers and Viciedo as possible future 1B/DH candidates, not to mention Dye, CQ, etc all could DH.

 

Ive heard that KW liked Pena, but I havent actually seen anything to back that up.

[RockRaines]

On the other hand, it was also rumored that Pena was one of those guys that KW might have had his eye on for a while for some reason. Those guys are guys that KW occasionally will overpay to try to get.

I think he saw a bullpen collapse/issue coming soon and wanted to add a quality guy to help. obviously it didnt pan out, but I think he was willing to part with a guy of Allen's caliber to help this season.

[witesoxfan]

True, but check out his stint in Charlotte. Give him a year in a majors - or maybe just two months - and then let's see if he's striking out at similar pace.

 

He was awful in Charlotte. You mean Reno.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

He was awful in Charlotte. You mean Reno.

No, I meant Charlotte. His K rate was waaaay above his norms over the last two seasons during his stint with the Knights, but after the trade Allen's numbers adjusted and his K rate went back to where it had been before. I was using Charlotte as an example to show that his K rate in the Majors can't be expected to be as bad in the future as it has been thus far.

 

It's going to take Allen some time to get used to MLB pitching, but he's a fast learner and once he learns something he's able to hold on to that and progress forward. He'll have his struggles in the Majors, and he'll have his prolonged slumps like just about anyone, but long-term I think he can become about a 60-70 BB, 100-110 K per year type of hitter, kind of like Paulie is.

[Soxbadger]

I think he can become about a 60-70 BB, 100-110 K per year type of hitter, kind of like Paulie is.

 

Konerko had much better OBP than Allen in the minors.

 

Outside of the .413 put up in Reno, Allen's top obp was .372

 

Paulie had obp of .397 in AA, .407 in AAA.

 

In AA he had 72 bbs to 85 ks.

 

In AAA he had 64 bbs to 61 ks.

 

Allens numbers have improved but there are some troubling stats about his eye.

 

06, 07 he had 22 bbs to 126ks and 39 bbs to 124ks. Last season between A and AA he had 60bbs to 124ks.

 

This year he had 50bbs to 80ks (between AA and AAA). At Charlotte he had 0bb and 13k, so not sure how that shows a great eye.

 

Outside of this year, he has about the same amount of ks as games played, meaning that in the minors he has averaged about 1k per game. (607 games, 588ks and 219bbs)

 

In comparison, Konerko in 519 games had 319ks and 268 bbs.

 

Unless you have some reason why Allen is going to drastically improve, it would be a complete statistical aberration for Allen to put up similar bb and k numbers as Konerko, as Allen never has produced even close to similar numbers.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Soxbadger

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Konerko had much better OBP than Allen in the minors.

 

Outside of the .413 put up in Reno, Allen's top obp was .372

 

Paulie had obp of .397 in AA, .407 in AAA.

 

In AA he had 72 bbs to 85 ks.

 

In AAA he had 64 bbs to 61 ks.

 

Allens numbers have improved but there are some troubling stats about his eye.

 

06, 07 he had 22 bbs to 126ks and 39 bbs to 124ks. Last season between A and AA he had 60bbs to 124ks.

 

This year he had 50bbs to 80ks (between AA and AAA). At Charlotte he had 0bb and 13k, so not sure how that shows a great eye.

 

Outside of this year, he has about the same amount of ks as games played, meaning that in the minors he has averaged about 1k per game. (607 games, 588ks and 219bbs)

 

In comparison, Konerko in 519 games had 319ks and 268 bbs.

 

Unless you have some reason why Allen is going to drastically improve, it would be a complete statistical aberration for Allen to put up similar bb and k numbers as Konerko, as Allen never has produced even close to similar numbers.

All Allen has done the last 3 years is dramatically improve.

 

Paulie was a lot closer to a finished product when the Dodgers drafted him, while Allen was very raw. That's why Paulie was drafted 13th overall in 1994 and the Sox got Allen 149th overall in 2004. Paulie made his MLB debut at 21 and it could be argued that Paulie was capable of becoming a regular at 22 instead of spending more time in the minors. Just because Allen started off raw whereas Paulie was a polished hitter doesn't mean that Allen can't end up where Paulie has gotten. And I don't get why Allen's earlier minor league numbers are important at all. It doesn't matter how you start the race, what matters is how you finish and the player you become. The minor leagues are about learning and development, not statistics. The stats only tell you where a guy is in relation to the quality of his competition, and all Allen has done is adjust to each new level and then advance.

[Jordan4life_2007]

True, but check out his stint in Charlotte. Give him a year in a majors - or maybe just two months - and then let's see if he's striking out at similar pace.

 

You missed the point. I wasn't even trying to hate on Allen. Point was don't post some random HR as (AHA! See! Brandon Allen really is god!) and ignore the negatives.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

You missed the point. I wasn't even trying to hate on Allen. Point was don't post some random HR as (AHA! See! Brandon Allen really is god!) and ignore the negatives.

When did I say Brandon Allen was god?

 

BTW I wholeheartedly agree. Next time I post a link to a highlight, I'll be sure to add a disclaimer where I run the player down and pick at everything he is struggling with. That way whoever watches the video will be so down on the player by the time it starts that the highlight won't even matter as the viewer will have already come up with reasons for the highlight being nothing more than an aberration completely independent of said player's skill level. This should be mandatory for all highlight videos. And in Brandon Allen's case specifically, we members of the *Official* SoxTalk ™ Brandon Allen Hate Club should petition MLB.com to include multiple strikeout scenes prior to any and every Brandon Allen highlight film, along with a warning that says quite plainly, "Brandon Allen sucks! Please close browser NOW!" That way no one could be so confused as to ignore the negatives.

[Dick Allen]

Allen down to .220 and has struck out every game he has had at least 2 AB. It might be best not to think of him as a guy who will be all All Star someday just yet.

[southsider2k5]

If we can declare this trade a horrible thing, can I throw out there a Josh Fields comparison?

[witesoxfan]

No, I meant Charlotte. His K rate was waaaay above his norms over the last two seasons during his stint with the Knights, but after the trade Allen's numbers adjusted and his K rate went back to where it had been before. I was using Charlotte as an example to show that his K rate in the Majors can't be expected to be as bad in the future as it has been thus far.

 

It's going to take Allen some time to get used to MLB pitching, but he's a fast learner and once he learns something he's able to hold on to that and progress forward. He'll have his struggles in the Majors, and he'll have his prolonged slumps like just about anyone, but long-term I think he can become about a 60-70 BB, 100-110 K per year type of hitter, kind of like Paulie is.

 

He was on like a 130 strikeout pace in Charlotte. How is that going to improve in the majors?