chw42 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (PeavyTime @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 01:20 PM) So you just skipped the "Everett OR THOMAS" part? Did you see Frank Thomas play in Toronto? Not that pretty. He wasn't even as good as Jim in 06, his last really productive year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 01:26 PM) Did you see Frank Thomas play in Toronto? Not that pretty. He wasn't even as good as Jim in 06, his last really productive year. The Thomas + Rowand against Thome debate is kind of silly because there are too many variables. Comparing their 2006 seasons on paper is easy. If you start saying one is so much better than the other, then you'll have to look at all the aspects of things. Thomas put up that season playing with a lesser offense, a worse ballpark, and a non-contending team. They both had very good seasons. The Thome trade happened and thats kind of the end of it. Right or wrong can't be changed at this point. Edited September 1, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 11:25 AM) That whole scenario is your hindsight is 20/20. Had we known in 2005 that Thomas would stay healthy in 06' and put up similar numbers to Thome - then obviously keeping Rowand and Frank would look to have served us better on paper. Had you also told us it would take another 3+ years to find a centerfielder, then yes, we probably wouldn't have made those deals. Some see Kenny Williams using the 05' World Series to remove a "bad seed" in Thomas and being able to get away with it. Others feel he truly did what he felt was best for the organization so I can't fault him for the deal. Thome played well for us over the years. Obviously not having another ring and only one trip to the playoffs during his tenure here isn't what was the plan from the day the deal was made. To say it was a stupid move at the time is wrong and to put any blame on Thome is wrong. However, in hindsight. Things may have been better served with keeping Rowand and Frank. Assuming Frank would've produced as he did in 06' and then us being able to have replaced him after that. Unfortunately, that is not how things work. Considering that the entire team tanked in 2007, that Frank was worthless after 2007, and that Rowand would've left as a free agent after 2007, keeping Rowand and Frank would've only benefitted the Sox in 2006. I think that a Thome/Anderson in 2006 and 2008 would've worked better in hindsight. If we had Frank instead of Thome last year, I don't think that we win the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretchstretch Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 10:22 AM) How many rosters full of players under 30 are currently competing for the playoffs? exactly, BOS and NYY are teaming with 35 and older guys and look how they're doing we only need to lose one >35yr old, and his name is Ozzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 01:44 PM) Considering that the entire team tanked in 2007, that Frank was worthless after 2007, and that Rowand would've left as a free agent after 2007, keeping Rowand and Frank would've only benefitted the Sox in 2006. I think that a Thome/Anderson in 2006 and 2008 would've worked better in hindsight. If we had Frank instead of Thome last year, I don't think that we win the division. Ya but that is why there is the issue of too many variables. No one says Frank stays here after that 2006 season. That is why there are too many problems with reflecting on it. Rowand very well could've left but he had an incredible 07' season too and it would depend on the replacements for both. So its tough to compare. For 2006 - this team would've been better served with Thomas/Rowand in retrospect. It doesn't work that way though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (stretchstretch @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 02:56 PM) exactly, BOS and NYY are teaming with 35 and older guys and look how they're doing we only need to lose one >35yr old, and his name is Ozzie Fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) I'd say that's exactly what they're doing. And, for all we know, Kenny's generosity may result in Thome signing a one-year deal with us this winter. And I don't think it may take years to come out, as he stated. I think it's pretty obvious immediately that the Sox gave Thome a chance to go to a competitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (stretchstretch @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) exactly, BOS and NYY are teaming with 35 and older guys and look how they're doing we only need to lose one >35yr old, and his name is Ozzie Naaah. I say Nix to the bench, Ramirez back to second, and Ozzie back in at short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) But before August 1st of that year his avg was .389, 43 HRs, 118 RBIs, .485 OBP, and 1.470 OPS. It's true...I remember it vividly. He went completely hitless through September while grounding into 38 double plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (PeavyTime @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 01:05 PM) You guys can disagree all you want, but I know I'd choose Everett or Thomas and Rowand over Thome and what ever trash we ran out there for the past 4 years. And you'd be a horrendous general manager. You can disagree with that all you want, but I know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) And you'd be a horrendous general manager. You can disagree with that all you want, but I know it. The Sox wouldn't have even been in the race had Thome not been in the fold. That team damn near scored 900 runs, and that was with a piss poor second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Seeing how it all shook out ,i wouldve liked to have had Everett on the team in 2006. Just another yr of great quotes/stories perhaps. Joe Cowley has some story about Everett just coming up to him out of the blue and telling him 'ya gotta marry a big woman' and going on about it to like long explanation. It's something to that effect i could be slightly off Edited September 1, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) Seeing how it all shook out ,i wouldve liked to have had Everett on the team in 2006. Just another yr of great quotes/stories perhaps. Joe Cowley has some story about Everett just coming up to him out of the blue and telling him 'ya gotta marry a big woman' and going on about it to like long explanation. I have an off-topic question. you've been posting here for awhile, and I have no idea if you are male and female. I see Princess Dye, and I assume female... or are you just a male trying to be funny? Serious question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 03:47 PM) I have an off-topic question. you've been posting here for awhile, and I have no idea if you are male and female. I see Princess Dye, and I assume female... or are you just a male trying to be funny? Serious question! If it's a serious question, that use of 'and' is seriously troublesome I'm a man but I will say that my wife has at times gotten on here and posted. So i guess yes you're right i'm male and female. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 03:51 PM) If it's a serious question, that use of 'and' is seriously troublesome I'm a man but I will say that my wife has at times gotten on here and posted. So i guess yes you're right i'm male and female. I KNEW it. Thanks for clarifying that, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 More from the Col press on the Hynick trade. They think it could backfire bigtime. "In Hynick, the Rockies had a brainy, 6-foot-3 prospect who has displayed a keen understanding of pitching at each level of his development. His strikeout numbers were never particularly impressive, but everything else about his game was. The 24-year-old former eighth-round pick walked just 119 batters in 580 minor-league innings and posted a 3.83 ERA in the hitting haven that is the Pacific Coast League. He’ll be best remembered for throwing the first perfect game in Sky Sox history, a seven-inning masterpiece against Portland in late June. Altitude kills some pitchers, Hynick seemed impervious (opponents were hitting .257 against him at home, .257 on the road). Even his perfect game came here in the Springs, a thousand feet above Denver. This ability to pitch in the thin air — where breaking balls lose their bite and location is at a premium — should not be taken lightly. Jhoulys Chacin and Esmil Rogers, a pair of prospects rated higher than Hynick, have not shown a knack for retiring hitters at altitude. In 36 combined innings in Denver and Colorado Springs they are 0-6 with 34 walks and a 10.50 ERA." http://skysox.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/...-surprise/1645/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 kind of sounds like Brian Bannister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 04:06 PM) More from the Col press on the Hynick trade. They think it could backfire bigtime. "In Hynick, the Rockies had a brainy, 6-foot-3 prospect who has displayed a keen understanding of pitching at each level of his development. His strikeout numbers were never particularly impressive, but everything else about his game was. The 24-year-old former eighth-round pick walked just 119 batters in 580 minor-league innings and posted a 3.83 ERA in the hitting haven that is the Pacific Coast League. He’ll be best remembered for throwing the first perfect game in Sky Sox history, a seven-inning masterpiece against Portland in late June. Altitude kills some pitchers, Hynick seemed impervious (opponents were hitting .257 against him at home, .257 on the road). Even his perfect game came here in the Springs, a thousand feet above Denver. This ability to pitch in the thin air — where breaking balls lose their bite and location is at a premium — should not be taken lightly. Jhoulys Chacin and Esmil Rogers, a pair of prospects rated higher than Hynick, have not shown a knack for retiring hitters at altitude. In 36 combined innings in Denver and Colorado Springs they are 0-6 with 34 walks and a 10.50 ERA." http://skysox.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/...-surprise/1645/ Even in a seemingly failed season, KW has been impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Fangraphs on the trade. "Put Away the Torchesby R.J. Anderson - September 1, 2009 - Share this Article Add the White Sox to the list of teams people will call quitters since they effectively “threw in the towel” by dealing Jim Thome and Jose Contreras last night. The White Sox are six games back of first place Detroit and two and a half back of second place Minnesota. To date they’ve played a little under .500 ball and with 30 games remaining, CoolStandings has their playoff odds at 6%. That is to say, for every 1 million simulations, the White Sox make the playoffs 60,000 times while they miss out the other 940,000 tries You don’t have to run simulations to understand the chances weren’t good anyways. The Tigers have 32 games remaining, and if they simply played .500 ball Chicago would have to go 22-8 to tie Detroit for first. That’s without taking Minnesota into account. If Detroit plays like they have all season, at a .531 clip, then Chicago has to go 23-7 to tie, 24-6 to win and this is again without taking Minnesota into account. The bigger offense here might be missing out on a chance to land draft picks or potentially costing them a pick. Per Eddie Bajek’s latest Elias rankings, Jim Thome is a Type-A while Jose Contreras appears to be on the outside looking in on Type-B status. Maybe the Dodgers have agreed against offering Thome arbitration, but otherwise if the White Sox plan to bring the slugger back into the fold next season, it would cost them – or whoever signs him, for that matter – a draft pick. The draft pick angle should be focused on more while the playoff potential angle is focused on less. Either way, I don’t think Kenny Williams should take much heat for doing what amounts to a favor for Thome. " http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/p...ay-the-torches/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Maybe the Dodgers have agreed against offering Thome arbitration, but otherwise if the White Sox plan to bring the slugger back into the fold next season, it would cost them – or whoever signs him, for that matter – a draft pick. Yeah LA is going to risk $10mil on Thome being a pinch hitter. Not really thinking that article through at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 10:50 PM) Yeah LA is going to risk $10mil on Thome being a pinch hitter. Not really thinking that article through at all. And that is only if we finish in the top half of baseball, which isn't looking good right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 As anyone mentioned this thought . . . Hey Kenny, It's Jim, you know your DH? Any chance of getting me on a contender this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeavyTime Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I know the season was pretty much over anyways, but how is trading Thome and Jose considered "throwing in the towel"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 2, 2009 -> 09:08 AM) As anyone mentioned this thought . . . Hey Kenny, It's Jim, you know your DH? Any chance of getting me on a contender this season? Judging by the reports of how Jimmy was acting, not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 FYI i found on mlb trade rumors that the sox are sending about 1.4M of the 2.4M left owed to Thome this year. So we save a million bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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