eickevinmorris Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 06:52 AM) I said offensively. IMO Getz has as much OBP potential as Gardner. Getz got slammed around here. People said he had no power, wasn't exactly young for a rookie and wouldn't get better. You can say the exact same thing about Gardner. If he is such a stud waiting to happen, why are the Yankees, a team cutting payroll, bringing in expensive pieces to play in front of him? He's not an everyday player. He wouldn't be a bad guy to have off the bench, but leading off every day will make the fire Greg Walker threads grow. Christ. Getz played garbage defense and had no range. No one is saying he's a stud waiting to happen. People think he's a decent player who can fill out the outfield and play good defense with decent offensive production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 06:42 AM) Exactly what does Gardner bring offensively that Chris Getz did not? He plays the OF well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 08:32 AM) The White Sox offense wasn't good enough with Pods hitting over .300. Making Gardner the leadoff guy just weakens the White Sox offense. A nice bench player is what he is, but if KW gives up something good to get him, I think he's crazy. Our offense wasn't good enough last year with Pods hitting over .300 because we got very little out of 3b for 3 months, RF for 3 months, had no Quentin for 3 months, got nothing from SS for 2 months, CF for 2 months, and were breaking in a rookie 2b who struggled for 2 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 We dont need this guy-a trade just to say he did something by Williams-if he was good the Yanks would not be making moves to keep him off the field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 09:27 AM) We dont need this guy-a trade just to say he did something by Williams-if he was good the Yanks would not be making moves to keep him off the field You do realize this is the Yankees we're talking about right? They're the one team that isn't satisfied with a good player at every position; they can afford an all star at every position and they try to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eickevinmorris Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 DA, you are also dismissing the defensive impact Gardner would have on our lineup. Having a solid defensive outfield would make our good pitching staff even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 02:04 AM) Will you please read the Teahen resigning thread and get, if just some, insight into MLB financials before thinking the Sox signed Teahen 3 years beyond his free agency years? Kthx So, what part of my reference to the Sox signing Teahen to a 3 year contract was incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 04:31 AM) If you're trying to compare Carlos Quentin and Brett Gardner in there relative situations, Carlos Quentin was a former first round pick who at least showed a lot of potential (especially power wise) at the major league level. Gardner is a completely different type of ballplayer. What I'm comparing is the fact that they both started their MLB careers as a 4th outfielder for an organization in which they had minor league success and then initially had some struggles in MLB. They both were blocked at the major league level. Quentin went on to flourish with another club when he played every day. Gardner may very well do the same. He's not gonna get a full time opportunity for NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eickevinmorris Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) What I'm comparing is the fact that they both started their MLB careers as a 4th outfielder for an organization in which they had minor league success and then initially had some struggles in MLB. They both were blocked at the major league level. Quentin went on to flourish with another club when he played every day. Gardner may very well do the same. He's not gonna get a full time opportunity for NY. Your analogy ignores the gulf of talent disparity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (KevinM @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) Your analogy ignores the gulf of talent disparity. Both are talented, they have different games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (SEALgep @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 10:52 AM) Both are talented, they have different games. Talent-wise TCQ is so much better, it isn't even funny. Q is one of the most talented guys in the entire game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 10:45 PM) Ok so say Rios puts up a .750 OPS for the next 5 seasons. Would you rather pay a guy $12M a season to put up those kind of offensive numbers in CF or in RF? Because if he does that in RF, he'll argubly be one of the most overpaid players in baseball relative to his position with his output. At least in CF, that kind of offense is a little more acceptable. That's why if the Sox traded for Gardner and had him starting at CF, the Sox could have one of the worst offensive outfields in baseball I'd hate to say it for 2010. Not if Quentin and Rios do their jobs. This season is going to depend largely on those two guys anyway. QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 01:18 AM) Obviously signing Teahen for 3 years is gonna block Brent Morel and any other 3B. Viciedo should move to 1B now. He would replace Brandon Allen as the system's slugging 1B of the future. BTW, why does 670 podcast 4 hours of Brian-The-Whipping Boy and not a full White Sox Weekly show...?! It should be, and I think it is. You just have to go to weekend shows and it should be there. I think. They might do it in one-hour segments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 11:04 AM) Not if Quentin and Rios do their jobs. This season is going to depend largely on those two guys anyway. Without a doubt, those two guys are the biggest question marks going into '10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Between Gardner and De Aza lies a stud waiting to blossom. Not a TCQ-type stud, but a guy who does a different, and necessary job. Doesn't De Aza typically start off red hot? I think he becomes the answer when it is all said and done. I'd love to have gardner pushing him, which can only help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eickevinmorris Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (SEALgep @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 11:52 AM) Both are talented, they have different games. Talented enough to play MLB? Yes. One is talented enough to be a perennial .900 OPS guy with a few 1.000 OPS years mixed in. The other is talented enough to be a great defensive CF with good speed and a mediocre bat. There's a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) I'm interested in why you guys dont think the kid is good? What justifies your thinking? 2005 A ball 73 games .284/.377 19 for 22 in SB 06 A-AA 118 games .298/.395 58 for 70 07 AA-AAA 99 games .281/.369 39 for 46 08 AAA 94 games .296/.414 37 for 46 yes he struggled his "first year" in the bigs put it was a very small sample size and it was his first cup of coffee he followed it up with a .270 .345 26 for 31 in 108 games the guys never played full time and not because he sucks but because hes stuck in new york, i see no reason why he couldnt put up .280/.360 and snag 40 bags which with his glove and the fact that hes cheap/dont have to spend money on pods or someone like that/dont have to deal away big time talent to acquire a lead off guy/ dont have to put becks in the leadoff spot. bring him in kenny, give em De Aza and Morel Edited December 11, 2009 by 2nd_city_saint787 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 01:50 PM) bring him in kenny, give em De Aza and Morel De Aza is not a prospect and no one would be interested in him in a trade. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure he's untradeable until June 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (KevinM @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 06:39 PM) Talented enough to play MLB? Yes. One is talented enough to be a perennial .900 OPS guy with a few 1.000 OPS years mixed in. The other is talented enough to be a great defensive CF with good speed and a mediocre bat. There's a big difference. The point is, to a team, they both have value with their different style of play. That's all that was said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) De Aza is not a prospect and no one would be interested in him in a trade. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure he's untradeable until June 1. my bad... give em Shelby and Morel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 or give em DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 $50 says Yankee fans are suggesting a Gardner/Beckham swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 12:50 PM) I'm interested in why you guys dont think the kid is good? What justifies your thinking? 2005 A ball 73 games .284/.377 19 for 22 in SB 06 A-AA 118 games .298/.395 58 for 70 07 AA-AAA 99 games .281/.369 39 for 46 08 AAA 94 games .296/.414 37 for 46 also has a career .997 FLD% 3 errors in 5 seasons yes he struggled his "first year" in the bigs put it was a very small sample size and it was his first cup of coffee he followed it up with a .270 .345 26 for 31 in 108 games the guys never played full time and not because he sucks but because hes stuck in new york, i see no reason why he couldnt put up .280/.360 and snag 40 bags which with his glove and the fact that hes cheap/dont have to spend money on pods or someone like that/dont have to deal away big time talent to acquire a lead off guy/ dont have to put becks in the leadoff spot. bring him in kenny, give em De Aza and Morel Now explain to me why that is at all relevant. Why the number of errors an outfielder is charged with means anything. It's high time we stop using fielding percentage as a measure of a player's defensive worth, especially an outfielder. The numbers say he's been a very good defender in his short time in the majors but that has nothing to do with FLD%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Fangraphs absolutely adores Gardner. His defense, speed, and OBP make him quite valuable. QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 07:00 PM) my bad... give em Shelby and Morel Why would the Yankees want a 3b prospect? Edited December 11, 2009 by chunk23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 02:34 PM) Now explain to me why that is at all relevant. Why the number of errors an outfielder is charged with means anything. It's high time we stop using fielding percentage as a measure of a player's defensive worth, especially an outfielder. The numbers say he's been a very good defender in his short time in the majors but that has nothing to do with FLD%. Im just putting up his stats and trying to have someone justify why the wouldnt want him and that stat intrigued me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Jenks to Yankees for Gardner +? How long until Rivera retires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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