f***ing shoot me now. This is why you cannot compare players in different eras.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports reports that Orlando is ending trade talks involving Dwight Howard.

 

No surprise.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports reports that Orlando is ending trade talks involving Dwight Howard.

 

No surprise.

 

A steve prediction wins!

Centers arguably better than Russell: Mikan, Ewing, Sabonis.

 

If we've overrated Russell for dominance vs weaker competition, then shouldn't Mikan be WAY down the list for playing in an era where the average center was a 6'6" stiff and the league average FG% was in the mid 30s?

I have to agree that Russell is definitely overrated. Maybe not to the level you think, but overrated, specifically due to the championships. He consistenly had multiple HOFers on his teams. Just because he won with those guys doesn't automatically make him a top-5 player as some seem to think.

 

This is mostly where I fall. I think he's overrated mostly because he seems to get ALL of the credit for those 11 rings from a historical perspective. Havlicek is one of the most underrated players from a historical perspective, the only people you hear really touting him are Celtics homers (cough Simmons cough) or really old farts. Keep in mind that he got two rings post-Russell along with Dave Cowens and Jo Jo White.

 

He's also only one of the great players the Celtics had in that era. Does the casual fan even know who Sam Jones is, much less what he accomplished? Or Tom Heinsohn?

 

However, he was still a damn good player. He wasn't a total gimp offensively, he still scored 15 a game at an average to slightly above average FG% and could handle the ball/pass. I've always compared him to something like Josh Smith with an exponentially higher basketball IQ. While that's not a top-5 player ever, that's still pretty damn good.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/734631...riangle-offense

 

Pretty interesting article about the Triangle offense and Phil Jackson.

This is mostly where I fall. I think he's overrated mostly because he seems to get ALL of the credit for those 11 rings from a historical perspective. Havlicek is one of the most underrated players from a historical perspective, the only people you hear really touting him are Celtics homers (cough Simmons cough) or really old farts. Keep in mind that he got two rings post-Russell along with Dave Cowens and Jo Jo White.

 

He's also only one of the great players the Celtics had in that era. Does the casual fan even know who Sam Jones is, much less what he accomplished? Or Tom Heinsohn?

 

However, he was still a damn good player. He wasn't a total gimp offensively, he still scored 15 a game at an average to slightly above average FG% and could handle the ball/pass. I've always compared him to something like Josh Smith with an exponentially higher basketball IQ. While that's not a top-5 player ever, that's still pretty damn good.

 

So the people touting him, are the ones who actually saw him play.

So the people touting him, are the ones who actually saw him play.

Havlicek was even underrated on his college team because he was playing next to Jerry Lucas.

People, in general, don't know much about basketball pre 1980 in general. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing. The ones we remember were important culturally, or have stayed around the game long enough that we recognize them from that. I couldn't even tell you what Bob Love looks like. Norm Van Lier is a crazy guy on the post game show. I can't think of a single other team I follow that I know so little about before a certain point. probably hawks pre 60, but I'm not even sure if that's true.

People, in general, don't know much about basketball pre 1980 in general. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing. The ones we remember were important culturally, or have stayed around the game long enough that we recognize them from that. I couldn't even tell you what Bob Love looks like. Norm Van Lier is a crazy guy on the post game show. I can't think of a single other team I follow that I know so little about before a certain point. probably hawks pre 60, but I'm not even sure if that's true.

Even early 90's escape alot of people nowadays. When Comcast plays the old Bulls games from the title years it amazing how people forget who were on the other team.

Norm Van Lier is a crazy dead guy on the post game show.

 

He's been dead for a while I can call him crazy again.

A source told Yahoo! Sports that "Dwight’s not a happy camper," and Howard has told the Magic that he'll leave via free agency if not dealt by the March 15 deadline. In other words, though trade talks have quieted down for the moment, we certainly haven't heard the last of Howard being traded. And it wouldn't be remotely shocking to see trade talk ramp up well in advance of the March 15 deadline.

 

Apparently, Dwight Howard is really interested in making people dislike him.

People, in general, don't know much about basketball pre 1980 in general. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing. The ones we remember were important culturally, or have stayed around the game long enough that we recognize them from that. I couldn't even tell you what Bob Love looks like. Norm Van Lier is a crazy guy on the post game show. I can't think of a single other team I follow that I know so little about before a certain point. probably hawks pre 60, but I'm not even sure if that's true.

Bob Love came to my grade school! This is the extent of my Bob Love knowledge.

So the people touting him, are the ones who actually saw him play.

 

Well, the old farts yes. Celtic homers, not so much. To be fair, it is pretty hard when all you have to go on are stats and grainy videos.

So Dwight Howard comes out and says he doesn't want to leave Orlando, and there is still a good chance he stays. And then they dont' trade him and he says he's pissed and wants to be traded.

Good post above with that "article". One edit though, Hakeem was magnificent, but the only reason he won those titles was Jordan in retirement. It didnt have anything to do with him all of a sudden wanting to dominate. I'm sure Barkely, Clyde, and Payton would have loved that shot.

Good post above with that "article". One edit though, Hakeem was magnificent, but the only reason he won those titles was Jordan in retirement. It didnt have anything to do with him all of a sudden wanting to dominate. I'm sure Barkely, Clyde, and Payton would have loved that shot.

 

When did Hakeem lose to Jordan in the playoffs? What other seasons did he even make the NBA finals?

When did Hakeem lose to Jordan in the playoffs? What other seasons did he even make the NBA finals?

Would they have won those titles if Jordan was still playing?

Good post above with that "article". One edit though, Hakeem was magnificent, but the only reason he won those titles was Jordan in retirement.

8-peat my friend!

Looks like CP3 heading to Clips afterall. Gordon included in return.

Source says Clipps will send Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minny 1st to New Orleans for Paul and picks.

— Marc J. Spears (@SpearsNBAYahoo) December 15, 2011

 

Second source directly involved: Gordon, Minnesota pick, Kaman and Aminu all to New Orleans for CP3. Clippers relented and included both.

— David Aldridge (@daldridgetnt) December 15, 2011

Would they have won those titles if Jordan was still playing?

 

Probably not, I'm not saying he would have beaten Jordan. Just interesting that the two seasons he "dominated" and made the NBA finals were the two years Jordan was gone. The other years he couldn't even get out of the Western Conference to even face the Bulls.

Yahoo Sports -

The NBA has reached an agreement to trade New Orleans Hornets point guard Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Clippers, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

 

The Hornets will receive guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and the Minnesota Timberwolves’ unprotected first-round pick.

Source says Clipps will send Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minny 1st to New Orleans for Paul and picks.

— Marc J. Spears (@SpearsNBAYahoo) December 15, 2011

 

Second source directly involved: Gordon, Minnesota pick, Kaman and Aminu all to New Orleans for CP3. Clippers relented and included both.

— David Aldridge (@daldridgetnt) December 15, 2011

So if this is happening, the league won, and got a spectacular deal for that asset. Does Kaman's contract expire soon?