dyuen Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 02:44 PM) I hope you're right, and I'm wrong...we're screwed if he doesn't improve. With that said, the time for excuses with him has to be over. I sure hope I am wrong too because I am not convinced he will go back to what he was. I don't think 3 starts last season is enough to convince me that he is still a stud. Plenty of bad pitchers go through good stretches. I don't think those games are any more telling than the bad ones hes having this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 01:34 PM) And why wouldn't they? Read from the last page on. I just posted a couple of post up that a team can easily get a great pitcher again. Put him back in the NL (especially at a pitchers park) and you will get the same guy. Remember, sox screwed around with him with tweaking his mechanics early on, and its not like he is clearly injured (or severe lack of velocity). No doubt in my mind he would be dominate going back to the NL where he knows the hitters. If a team felt as strongly as you do about him bouncing back once he switches leagues, I'd be wrong, but given the investment, I'd think the team, even with deep pockets, would want to see more from Peavy than they have. Now, if the White Sox were willing to pick up a portion of the deal, maybe that could get talks going, but I'm guessing they wouldn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 01:38 PM) If you do the math and assume the Sox will spend about $95 million next year on salary (that could be an overestimate), then the Sox have somewhere in the range of $10-$12 million to spend. They'll have holes at DH, 1b, C, all 4 bench slots, and at least 2 bullpen slots including closer (or chief LH setup man if they move Thornton to closer). Viciedo and Flowers probably will fill 2 of those spots, but that means $10-$12 million to divide amongst 6-7 players. Unless they can move some salary this year to put savings towards next year, they'll be trying to find bargains again. That's pretty much how I see it - and I think the payroll will go south of $90 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 04:13 PM) That's pretty much how I see it - and I think the payroll will go south of $90 million. If that happens, then you go from having $12 million available to about $7 million available, depending on exact arb figures for Q and D1, assuming Q is actually offered arbitration. When I look at those sorts of plausible numbers, I really see no option other than this; if we want to compete next year, we either need to strike gold on about 7 guys all signed for $1 million, or we need to move 1-2 of our contracts to both free up salary and grab someone else who can fill those holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 01:46 PM) If that happens, then you go from having $12 million available to about $7 million available, depending on exact arb figures for Q and D1, assuming Q is actually offered arbitration. When I look at those sorts of plausible numbers, I really see no option other than this; if we want to compete next year, we either need to strike gold on about 7 guys all signed for $1 million, or we need to move 1-2 of our contracts to both free up salary and grab someone else who can fill those holes. We're not going to be competitive next year unless this team gets ridiculously lucky. My guess is that Kenny tries to move Mark this winter (and he may have difficulty doing so) and basically concedes next year. The "reloading" will have to wait until 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 05:05 PM) We're not going to be competitive next year unless this team gets ridiculously lucky. My guess is that Kenny tries to move Mark this winter (and he may have difficulty doing so) and basically concedes next year. The "reloading" will have to wait until 2012. If you're going to move Mark, then I think you start looking to move D1 as well. He'll be a FA at the end of 2012 and he'd be an increasingly expensive luxury before then. Of course, I still think you start trying to move Rios too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) If you're going to move Mark, then I think you start looking to move D1 as well. He'll be a FA at the end of 2012 and he'd be an increasingly expensive luxury before then. Of course, I still think you start trying to move Rios too. The Sox can't afford to move good bats... basically because they don't have very many signed through the next few years. They're basically going to have to rebuild around Rios and Beckham (assuming that he pans out). If D1 doesn't agree to a contract extension, I agree that you consider moving him as well. If he goes to FA, the Sox won't win a bidding war over him, nor should they try to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 05:20 PM) The Sox can't afford to move good bats... basically because they don't have very many signed through the next few years. They're basically going to have to rebuild around Rios and Beckham (assuming that he pans out). If D1 doesn't agree to a contract extension, I agree that you consider moving him as well. If he goes to FA, the Sox won't win a bidding war over him, nor should they try to. The other way to look at that though is...how many $14 million bats can the Sox afford not to move? At least in my world, if you're doing the full firesale, the guys you have to trade are the guys who's value isn't likely to go any higher. If Rios keeps rolling through July, that's a description that I think fits him well. The guys you hold onto are the guys who are underperforming, unless someone overpays you for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I can't bear to move Alex now. I have fallen in love with his talents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 04:29 PM) I can't bear to move Alex now. I have fallen in love with his talents. If we do trade Alex we're rebuilding, not retooling and KW has not been one to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 02:25 PM) The other way to look at that though is...how many $14 million bats can the Sox afford not to move? At least in my world, if you're doing the full firesale, the guys you have to trade are the guys who's value isn't likely to go any higher. If Rios keeps rolling through July, that's a description that I think fits him well. The guys you hold onto are the guys who are underperforming, unless someone overpays you for them. Well, sure, but you need SOMEBODY to build the offense around. If you want to sell Rios, you need to extend PK... and who knows if he even wants to stay (I wouldn't). What are the other options? Beckham? Quentin? Teahen? Similarly, if you sell D1, you need at least one above-average veteran to anchor the rotation. And that would be Peavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 04:29 PM) If we do trade Alex we're rebuilding, not retooling and KW has not been one to rebuild. Don't get me wrong, it would be a quick return on our investment, but I agree with WC on this...you have to build the offense around someone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Ide try to trade Konerko, Thornton, Jones, Putz, Jenks, and AJ Save some money and possibly get back some things that may help down the line.. ide rather see Flowers, Hudson, Viciedo, Torres then the current crap out there anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I could post this in 3 different threads: MDGonzales Williams: "Some changes need to be made." 3 minutes ago via mobile web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 02:35 PM) Don't get me wrong, it would be a quick return on our investment, but I agree with WC on this...you have to build the offense around someone... As we're painfully aware, CF is also a difficult position to fill. I'd sell Rios for the right price and all, but it'd have to be a deal I couldn't refuse. Rios is signed through the next four years with a TO for 2015, making him the logical piece to build around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 08:38 PM) Where do you all you AJ haters come up with this garbage? Look at the stats before saying that crap. Year ----------- AJ's Line ------------ MLB Avg As C ------------- AJ's Difference 2001 --- .289/.322/.441/.763 ----- .251/.313/.393/.706 ----- +.038/+.009/+.048/+.057 2002 --- .300/.334/.439/.773 ----- .253/.315/.383/.698 ----- +.047/+.019/+.062/+.075 2003 --- .312/.360/.464/.824 ----- .258/.320/.402/.723 ----- +.054/+.040/+.007/+.101 2004 --- .272/.319/.410/.729 ----- .261/.324/.403/.728 ----- +.011/ -.005/+.007/+.001 2005 --- .257/.308/.420/.728 ----- .253/.315/.390/.705 ----- +.004/ -.007/+.030/+.023 2006 --- .295/.333/.436/.769 ----- .269/.329/.416/.745 ----- +.026/+.004/+.020/+.024 2007 --- .263/.309/.403/.712 ----- .256/.318/.394/.713 ----- +.007/ -.009/+.009/+.057 2008 --- .281/.312/.416/.728 ----- .257/.325/.390/.715 ----- +.038/+.009/+.048/ -.001 2009 --- .300/.331/.425/.755 ----- .254/.321/.396/.717 ----- +.046/+.010/+.029/+.038 2010 --- .218/.257/.328/.584 ----- .257/.335/.397/.732 ----- -.039/ -.078/ -.069/ -.148 Isn't being that far above league average in every single category year after year with only a few exceptions pretty much the definition of a good hitter? It's better than good actually, IMO. Especially for a LH C who can handle a pitching staff. The only bad year AJ has ever had offensively for a catcher is this one, but his career and his monthly splits so far suggest a turn around: April .196/.229/.200/.429 May .241/.275/.391/.666 June .273/.273/.455/.727 And April is actually the worst month of his career statistically, so while it may be a bit surprising to see him hit that low in April, it's not surprising to see him struggle in April. Anyone who thinks Tyler Flowers of the .215 Charlotte batting average and who has Ked in 23.4% of his MiLB PA (this percentage is also rising with level - 16.6% in A, 19.6% in A+, 24.8% last year with 24% in AA and now 34.2% this year in AAA) will somehow equal or surpass the career of AJ Pierzynski anytime in the near future just because he takes walks and has some power (LOL) is at best hoping for a miracle. MLB veterans aren't going to mess around at all with him and if he can't hit the ball off junkballers and pitchers like Carlos Torres who survive off of some itty bitty titty slider-looking thing and some command of a straight FB then he's going to get eaten alive in the Majors. Tyler Flowers isn't Ryan Howard, he isn't Ryan Braun, he's IMO just another future bust at C, and instead of dealing AJ and pretending he sucks we need to celebrate AJ for his contributions to the organization with a 2 year extension at a reasonable value, and then we need to put Tyroid on the block. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 06:03 PM) As we're painfully aware, CF is also a difficult position to fill. I'd sell Rios for the right price and all, but it'd have to be a deal I couldn't refuse. Rios is signed through the next four years with a TO for 2015, making him the logical piece to build around. He's also 29 years old and frankly is unlikely to keep up this pace for the next 2-3 years, already expensive, and could be a major grab for a contender this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 05:06 PM) He's also 29 years old and frankly is unlikely to keep up this pace for the next 2-3 years, already expensive, and could be a major grab for a contender this year. He should be a damn good offensive player (.365 wOBA) and great defensive player (CF for the next few years, maybe RF at the end of the deal), that's an integral part of a ballclub. If you don't expect him to keep up even that level of production then A.) he should never have been claimed in the first place and B.) we need to go into full rebuilding mode because I don't see a whole lot of building blocks in the organization right now. Personally, I'm only trading him for a package of talent that blows me away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf_soxfan Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 What is going on with Jones?? Sadly, my attention span is not as acutely focused on this year's Sox team, but was he injured for a short time? Any reason for the inconsistent playing time apart from diminished production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 03:06 PM) He's also 29 years old and frankly is unlikely to keep up this pace for the next 2-3 years, already expensive, and could be a major grab for a contender this year. I absolutely see your point on selling high, as I expect Rios to be in the .790-.830 OPS range for the next few years (he's certainly not going to keep up at his current pace). But if you do that, who do you build around? You need to have at least one above-average hitter in the lineup next year, or you're looking at attendance slipping well below 2 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 04:59 PM) I could post this in 3 different threads: MDGonzales Williams: "Some changes need to be made." 3 minutes ago via mobile web cst_sox "I don't know what and I don't when but some changes need to take place.'' KW half a minute ago via API Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 05:12 PM) He should be a damn good offensive player (.365 wOBA) and great defensive player (CF for the next few years, maybe RF at the end of the deal), that's an integral part of a ballclub. If you don't expect him to keep up even that level of production then A.) he should never have been claimed in the first place and B.) we need to go into full rebuilding mode because I don't see a whole lot of building blocks in the organization right now. Personally, I'm only trading him for a package of talent that blows me away. Precisely. I don't know why people act is Rios was acquired as some kinda quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 While I don't expect him to keep up THIS pace, I do expect him to be this kind of all-around, 5-tool player. He is in the prime of his career and will be for the next 3-4 years. If a player that is exceeding expectations and outperforming his contract is not a player you want to hold on to and build around, I'm not sure what is. Now if you believe we are going to completely rebuild, well, perhaps it is best to trade him because he won't be in his prime anymore by the time your team is ready to compete. But I think we all know that with Jake and Mark being immovable, we're pretty much relegated to the "reload" path, which means Alex is the one guy on offense you can safely build around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 05:42 PM) While I don't expect him to keep up THIS pace, I do expect him to be this kind of all-around, 5-tool player. He is in the prime of his career and will be for the next 3-4 years. If a player that is exceeding expectations and outperforming his contract is not a player you want to hold on to and build around, I'm not sure what is. Now if you believe we are going to completely rebuild, well, perhaps it is best to trade him because he won't be in his prime anymore by the time your team is ready to compete. But I think we all know that with Jake and Mark being immovable, we're pretty much relegated to the "reload" path, which means Alex is the one guy on offense you can safely build around. Why not? Other than a lower K%, what's Rios doing now that's so above and beyond what he was doing in 2006/2007? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 04:45 PM) Why not? Other than a lower K%, what's Rios doing now that's so above and beyond what he was doing in 2006/2007? Well, he's basically one of the most valuable players in baseball right now. I expected him to be an All-Star caliber player. Right now he is on par with the MVP candidates (except for the fact that we suck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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